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Ok, so one important take out is 1.5 hours from 0% on the dash to DC/DC cut off. Good to know.
Right, but also good to know that 2.25 hours was required for that when forum member "Warriors2727?" did his.

It should help one's patience level to consider that the wait time almost certainly depends on how far off your gauge has become. So the longer it takes, the more range you're likely to regain. For example, if it's reading 0% when there's really 10% usable capacity left, it will take longer to die than if there's really only 5% left.

Warriors2727? gained nearly 20%!

if you did not charge it to a 100%, the experiment is tainted
I haven't seen any official evidence that non-stop charge to full is required. It was suggested by someone, but just going sub-zero to DC/DC cutoff should reset the bottom end, & then the top end should be reset the next time it's charged until it stops.
 

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Discussion Starter #82
Just an interesting update on the total Ah capacity:

In my 500E, it actually went up from 57 Ah to 57.3 Ah for no apparent reason.

Looks like another proof that the number means little. Real-life range is now at 145 km / 90 mi with no A/C, two people and 50 kg cargo.
 

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Thanks for reporting. Ya, the OBD numbers we've been looking at so far for HV battery health are pretty inaccurate.

Unfortunately, the % gauge can also be wrong, so a range estimate based on it isn't very accurate.

It might be more accurate if you take it BELOW zero (to DC/DC cutoff) to reset the gauge. It would be interesting to see if that makes the gauge match the OBD % readout.
 

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Just finished the test. Once again, I ran the car down to 0%, then let it sit with key on, fans on full blast, etc. until the DC/DC cutoff. Turned the car off, and plugged into the EVSE (car charged at ~29.5A @ 208vac).
I didn't keep exact track of the exact time, but it seems the car took a little over 3 hours to fully charge. The EVSE reported 18.68 kWh delivered, which if I (optimistically) assume 90% charging efficiency, that would mean that the car only accepted ~16.8 kWh. Based on anecdotal evidence from other forum members, a new/healthy battery should have around 21 kWh of usable capacity, which would put me at around 20% degradation.
I'll be driving it every day and I will see if I can notice any changes in range. I'll reset the trip odometer and try to drive as much as I can on this one charge throughout the week (maybe I'll do some DoorDash tonight or something to try and rack up a few miles). Unfortunately I still do not have Alfa-OBD, but I will try to see about ordering the device this week to see if I can get some hard data from the car...
For reference, my 500e is a 2014 model with about 56k miles. I believe that the previous owner did not use the car much during his last several months of ownership, and left the car plugged in/full when not in use. Whether or not this is true, or if it is the cause of the impact on the battery, I will never know for sure, but that's my suspicion...
 

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Discussion Starter #86
Thanks for the update. Just keep on driving and keep an eye on the actual range you're achieving. Don't worry: most of the numbers here are anecdotal, plus even the battery controller data often feels drunk.

The actual range however might fluctuate significantly depending on the weather and your driving style. I took ours from my wife for couple days, and this is what I'm now consistently getting on the GOM after full charge (A/C off):

108760


Explanation? I don't have any. Real-life range is 140+
 

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Explanation? I don't have any. Real-life range is 140+
The GOM seems to be based on the last 10 miles of driving or so. If your drive is long enough to get the battery well conditioned and the last part of your drive is down hill or at least flat at low speeds, I would expect the GOM to bias the estimate to some unrealistic high value. Next time your drive, the estimate will drop quickly in the first 10 miles or so as the thermal management system conditions the battery to the optimal temperature or if you are driving up hill, accelerating a lot etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #88
The GOM seems to be based on the last 10 miles of driving or so. If your drive is long enough to get the battery well conditioned and the last part of your drive is down hill or at least flat at low speeds, I would expect the GOM to bias the estimate to some unrealistic high value. Next time your drive, the estimate will drop quickly in the first 10 miles or so as the thermal management system conditions the battery to the optimal temperature or if you are driving up hill, accelerating a lot etc.
Last few kms of my drive is steep uphill. But yes, it's a rolling average of some sorts, plus ambient temperature.
 

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I also read somewhere "GOM is based on the last 10 mi", so even if the last few miles is steep uphill, what really matters the most hill-wise is the elevation difference over the last 10 mi. Speed makes a huge difference too, again not just the last bit, but the last 10-mile average.

Apparently an exception is that as SOC drops below a certain level, the GOM favors the very last mile.
 

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108763


So far after a couple days of driving, I'll update again on Friday (by then I will probably need to charge again). This trip is from the end of my 0-100 test.
So to go 32.4mi I've used up 41% of the battery as indicated by the display, at an efficiency of 4.9mi/kWh. That comes out to about 6.61kWh used.

(32.4mi) / (4.9mi/kWh) = 6.61kWh used
(6.61kWh) / (41%) = 16.13kWh total usable capacity

I have noticed that the displayed battery percentage seems to fluctuate though... Sometimes after the car sits all day or night, it will go up or down by a few percentage points (in fact, I think it went up by several points last night). I think this is part of the reason for the U69 software update, which my car still has not received yet...
 

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Right about % being inaccurate. I ran those same numbers on 12 different trips in my 2013 when it had only 20k mi, & got total usable capacity ranging all the way from 16.5 to 24.9kWh!
 

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@ajbessinger you seem to be a very efficient driver. Is the AC on?
A/C off, I wouldn't call myself a particularly efficient driver, but I'm not a total lead-foot either ;).
My daily drive is a bit hilly (north San Diego county), and depending on the route I take, it ranges from about 9-12mi each way, with max speeds around 50-55mph. I have a net elevation difference of ~360ft. between my house and my work (my house is at about 720ft, and my work is at about 360ft., on one of my routes though I can see elevations of up to 1,200ft).
I just plugged the car in for the first time since I completed the 0-100 test on Monday. I would've tried to push it a bit farther, but I need to have enough charge to safely get home tonight...
Here's my trip data, starting from a 100% charge on Monday.

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64.1 mi using 84% of the battery @ 4.9 mi/kWh. If I extrapolate with some math, that means I used 13.08 kWh. If 13.08 kWh truly represents 84% of my usable battery capacity, then that puts my total usable capacity at 15.57 kWh. Note that this is my first charge after I have performed the 0-100% reset procedure.

This weekend, I'm going to try this again, but rather than splitting up the driving over multiple days, I'm going to see how far I can drive on a charge in just one day.
 

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Alright, results of my one day range test are in. I did this on Saturday over the course of about 3 hours of DoorDash deliveries... Started at 100% (and also tried the opening/closing the door trick to try and get a little bit more charge in). Drove around until I hit 10% on the dash display. Using up the 90% of the battery as indicated, I was able to drive 62.5mi with an efficiency of 4.4mi/kWh.

(62.5mi) / (4.4mi/kWh) = 14.20kWh used

(14.20kWh) / (90%) = 15.78kWh total usable capacity
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Keep an eye on the longer term changes now, and account for the ambient temperature.

I wonder if the U69 will change anything.
 

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Keep an eye on the longer term changes now, and account for the ambient temperature.

I wonder if the U69 will change anything.
We'll see, I haven't gone in to have the update done yet. I was planning to last week, but had some other things come up and couldn't make it in...
Luckily here in San Diego, the ambient temp doesn't change very much ;). This time of year, daily temps generally range between 70-85 for the most part.
 

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If you check a few more times, you may get significantly different results:

I'm also in stable-temp So Cal, and when I had only about 5 years & 20k mi. on my 500e I ran those same calculations & the results ranged from 16.5 (nearly like yours with over twice the miles) to an impossible 24.9kWh total usable capacity.

The variation is most likely due to the inherent inaccuracy of the % gauge at the best of times (after sub-zero-to-100%+door-open/close). Consider that the gauge is attempting to extract 100 equal units out of one single volt difference between zero & 100%, & the voltage drop isn't even linear!

Oh! That's another possibility: It might be close enough to linear that the engineers figured that's good enough for the 500e's equivalent of a gas gauge, which we are all already accustomed to being inherently inaccurate on a gas car.
 

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I ran the car down... until the DC/DC cutoff. Turned the car off, and plugged in.. to fully charge. The EVSE reported 18.68 kWh delivered...
I just remembered that EPA measures EVSE kWh. They show 25kWh to fully charge a new 500e from zero*, which would mean you're at 75% capacity after resetting your % gauge. This seems very close to your numbers above. I'm a bit disappointed by this, but maybe someone can show that it's not that bad.


* 2013-15: "87 miles total range" times "29kWh/100mi" = 25kWh used by EVSE for full charge from zero.
2016-19: "84 miles total range" times "30kWh/100mi" = 25kWh used by EVSE for full charge from zero.
 
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