Fiat 500 Forum banner

121 - 140 of 166 Posts

·
Registered
2017 Fiat 500e (Billet Argento), 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TSI 5MT (Tungsten Silver), 2002 Honda VFR
Joined
·
507 Posts
Last time I charged from empty (fully discharged to DC/DC cutoff) to full, the EVSE showed 18.68 kWh delivered.
Wow that little? When I charged non stop from a GE L2 Charger at 14% left it took in 21.2kw it was one of those EV connect chargers with the small display.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Wow that little? When I charged non stop from a GE L2 Charger at 14% left it took in 21.2kw it was one of those EV connect chargers with the small display.
Yep, that little... Not totally sure why it is that degraded, and I have never heard of another instance this severe with a 500e. I do know that the previous owner had not driven the car much during the last several months of ownership.
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
1,992 Posts
Do you know whether it was in AZ or somewhere else really hot?

Have you checked the individual cell voltages to see if any are significantly lower than the rest?

If not, at least check the spread between min & max. Mine is around 6 to 10mV, but goes as high as 20 if it hasn't been balanced to 100% in a while.
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
1,992 Posts
Besides high SOC & high temp, high current is also bad, & while we can't inflict much of that by charging, a real lead-foot &/or hard braker could.

I'm wondering about something like one or more whole cell clusters malfunctioning. I think there are around 20 clusters (I don't have OBD handy), so each one of those failing would be about 5% capacity lost.
 

·
Registered
2017 Fiat 500e (Billet Argento), 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TSI 5MT (Tungsten Silver), 2002 Honda VFR
Joined
·
507 Posts
Besides high SOC & high temp, high current is also bad, & while we can't inflict much of that by charging, a real lead-foot &/or hard braker could.

I'm wondering about something like one or more whole cell clusters malfunctioning. I think there are around 20 clusters (I don't have OBD handy), so each one of those failing would be about 5% capacity lost.
I was braking from 88MPH and noticed my regen spiked 72kw for a few moments (Battery SOC at the time was 63%) thats alot of regen.
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
1,992 Posts
Ya, current flow produces around:
  • 80 kW floored* (accelerating or steep hill)
  • 72 kW hard braking
  • 40 kW floored at 88 mph*
  • 20 kW at 60
  • 6.6 kW on L2 or about 45 mph
  • 1.4 kW on L1
The 1st 2 bad ones can only be maintained on pretty steep hills, which makes me wonder if THAT led to AJ's battery degradation. Imagine charging to full to PROTECT your battery! (by preventing regen on a long downhill).

Still, if you were constantly flooring it & braking hard, it would inflict more wear on the HV batt.

*If I recall correctly, someone please correct me.
 

·
Registered
2017 Fiat 500e (Billet Argento), 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TSI 5MT (Tungsten Silver), 2002 Honda VFR
Joined
·
507 Posts
Current traffic prohibits me going slow so I be maxed 88 in carpool and still be followed lol. But if I decide to leave carpool there are lots of spots traffic gets congested and annoying so I stay in there mashed. Depending on terrain, IE hills or winds I find my car sitting mostly at 33kw maxed out at 88mph. Sometimes it sits higher with strong winds but not anymore then 40Kw I’m not too concerned about range as I get to charge at both ends so I pi$$ away my range like I don’t care with AC blasting. I guess your measurements are based on your car? Mine at 65mph it sits at a avg 14kw if no drafting on flat road, if I draft a truck or RV I can maintain 65 using just 6kw which is how I managed to get well over 100 mile range on highway.
 

·
Registered
2017 Fiat 500e (Billet Argento), 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TSI 5MT (Tungsten Silver), 2002 Honda VFR
Joined
·
507 Posts
I thought it would max out at 50 kw, but I saw 57 kW of regen just yesterday.
Faster speed you brake from higher it is, I never saw 72kw because I simply don’t go 88mph and brake on the regular. Normally braking from 65-70mph nets me about 55-64Kw. Also depends on temperature and state of charge. When you’re less then 70% it takes full advantage of max regeneration. I noticed braking at 75% or above it’s very light regen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
Discussion Starter #130
I have a pretty steep downhill right from our driveway, so was watching the behaviour of the car for quite a bit.

When the battery is cold, hot or full, the regen is limited usually to 2 kW, sometimes even to 0 kW (for that you have to ge t a full charge at certain temperature, I'd say around 20C).

When the system decides that whatever threshold is met, it allows more regen, so from 50 km/h to 10 km/h downhill I'd get ~20 Kw. The highest I've ever seen was 46, but I'm a slow driver.
 

·
Registered
2017 Fiat 500e (Billet Argento), 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TSI 5MT (Tungsten Silver), 2002 Honda VFR
Joined
·
507 Posts
I have a pretty steep downhill right from our driveway, so was watching the behaviour of the car for quite a bit.

When the battery is cold, hot or full, the regen is limited usually to 2 kW, sometimes even to 0 kW (for that you have to ge t a full charge at certain temperature, I'd say around 20C).

When the system decides that whatever threshold is met, it allows more regen, so from 50 km/h to 10 km/h downhill I'd get ~20 Kw. The highest I've ever seen was 46, but I'm a slow driver.
I drive based on conditions I need for that day, if I know I’m gonna squeeze 80 or miles that day I’m gonna be diligent and drive conservatory, but if I know my car will be charging on both ends like it is for me at work and home I haul a$$.
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
1,992 Posts
...33kw maxed out at 88mph... I guess your measurements are based on your car? Mine at 65mph it sits at a avg 14kw...
Yes, based on my car's display of motor power. I found my notes & edited my earlier post*. At higher speeds my lighter, less aero wheels/tires take more power than OEMs.

One of my 500e friends learned her route so well she would sometimes haul a$$ so bad she'd hit 0% as she pulled into her driveway! That's not ideal for the batt either, with high current AT low SOC. Also bad she'd let it sit there til the late-night low electric rate kicked in.

My power use numbers were just to show that a leadfoot driver should expect more batt degradation.

*37 (not 40) at 88
17 (not 20) at 60
 

·
Registered
2017 Fiat 500e (Billet Argento), 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TSI 5MT (Tungsten Silver), 2002 Honda VFR
Joined
·
507 Posts
Yes, based on my car's display of motor power. I found my notes & edited my earlier post*. At higher speeds my lighter, less aero wheels/tires take more power than OEMs.

One of my 500e friends learned her route so well she would sometimes haul a$$ so bad she'd hit 0% as she pulled into her driveway! That's not ideal for the batt either, with high current AT low SOC. Also bad she'd let it sit there til the late-night low electric rate kicked in.

My power use numbers were just to show that a leadfoot driver should expect more batt degradation.

*37 (not 40) at 88
17 (not 20) at 60
I sometimes feel a heavier wheel and tire serves as a ally for better range. Why? It’s a momentum energy storage like a flywheel. When I ride bikes acceleration is much better on light wheels but I can hold a steady speed with heavier wheels over minor rises and falls on rolling hills on the trails. I can keep pace on my mountain bike with the roadies and on the rolling hills those guys lose speed almost immediately on the small uphill while I carry more speed with my way heavier wheel and tire. if you ever driven a car with light race flywheel it loses speed very fast almost like engine braking. I wonder if there is a greater gain with aero wheels then weight.
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
1,992 Posts
I strongly doubt it, based on a few known facts:

  • Uphill causes HUGE range loss. On the way back down in ideal conditions you regen quite a bit of the loss, but not all of it, due partly to charger inefficiency*. Adding weight multiplies the uphill power use & downhill regen equally, for an overall range loss.
  • Increasing total weight &/or rotational weight increases flat-road regen in ideal conditions, but again, less than range lost to acellerate the extra weight.
What you're likely experiencing on the heavy bike is that you're applying a small amount of power, spread out over time on the flat, which reduces the peak power needed for short hills. Peak power is less, but overall energy input is the same or more, & that's what matters for our car's range.

*It's easy to check, if you have any hills nearby. Just zero out 1 of your trip gauges, drive a mile at a set speed on a flat road with no wind & note your power use. Then zero it out again & go the same speed 1/2 mile uphill, & then back down.
 

·
Registered
2017 Fiat 500e (Billet Argento), 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TSI 5MT (Tungsten Silver), 2002 Honda VFR
Joined
·
507 Posts
It does in the long run however I said rolling hills which means there is a balance between those down and ups, the extra mass has inertial energy to carry you up with minimal cost from the down part of it. Go bike up the river trail the one that goes from seal beach all the way up to Azusa, a lot of parts of it is rolling hills of short ups and downs and quite frankly compared to my carbon road bike the mountain bike is pretty effortless and comfortable despite far more heft on whole bike and lots of the wheels. If you wanna experiment go to a skate park and roll a empty coke can down the half pipe it will stop almost immediately at the beginning of the rise while a full coke can will rise 1/3 of the way up the other side. Kinda what I’m getting at and if the hills are short rolling kind heavier works out better. I know on my road bike I have to start mashing pedals before the hill to go up with my mountain bike I can get nearly all the way up hardly putting any effort in the pedals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
Discussion Starter #136
Okay, take 2 on the recalibration experiment. This time I'm also monitoring the AlfaOBD live.

Observation 1: at 0% dash SOC the OBD SOC is 5.882%.
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
1,992 Posts
I assume that's with key on, rear defog, low-beam with fogs, & fan on high. We never did find out if it's okay to drain it parked UN-plugged, with the motor "on", left foot full brake, in D with a bit of accelerator pedal. The car will LET you do that, & it seems fairly "idiot resistant" in most other ways, so maybe it's okay. Someone with a lease that's about to expire could floor both pedals & see what happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Fiatatat, I don't remember you having any range issues or calibration issues (displaying around 191 km after charging). Just curious why you are doing this and potentially harming your HV battery?
 
121 - 140 of 166 Posts
Top