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Ok so I will order the timing tool then, So on the multiair even if the missing retaining ring was on the plunger for cylinder two it wouldn't operate cylinder one?
It is all connected chambers in there, so loss of pressure somewhere will have have an effect on all of them, technically. But I can't say for sure because I don't know, that if lack of retaining ring on #2 cylinder would affect #1 cylinder. That's a good question.
 

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With brick not having oil pressure, won’t that effect low compression in more than one cylinder? It appears that only cylinder #1 was effected. I am asking these types of questions, as I Have the same exact problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
But I feel like if there is no oil pressure in the multiair actuator, I wouldn't think the solenoid would have oil pressure to push down and actuate the valves. I do have a wet exhaust exit where the manifold sits so it could be that the multiair actuates but since the sxhaust doesn't close it doesnt have compression.

Before I end up pulling the head is there any way to test ithe multiair directly?
as in my case I cannot turn on my car without having to plug in and put everything back together
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I am wondering if there is a bent exhaust valve. But your car was running when you bought it. I have the same issue
Yeah my car was running and driving, When we picked it up, we were able to drive the car a number of miles with no strange noises, just underpowered. I just ordered the timing tool so I'll be taking the head off when that comes.

What is the best way to take the intake off? Is to leave it attached to the head and just remove all the fuel lines and connections?
 

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Try using a borescope to look inside the cylinder/valves.
 

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You might want to take a look at my previous post. I was basically going thru the same issue as you with what seemed to be a stuck valve, unable to get a compression test without the Multi-Air box installed.

Multiair Brick removal. | Page 2 | Fiat 500 Forum (fiat500owners.com)

Once you lose that little clip off a plunger, the Multi-Air box needs to be replaced. No ifs ands or buts. I was able to purchase a new one for $1,350 with tax and shipping.

After replacing the Multi-Air box with a new one and installing new plugs and coils, the engine still was running on three cylinders, until it ran for almost 20 minutes. All of a sudden, cylinder 1 started firing and the engine has been running like a top since then.

I have a funny feeling that your head is alright, it's just the Multi-Air box that's the issue.

Good luck.

Have a good day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
You might want to take a look at my previous post. I was basically going thru the same issue as you with what seemed to be a stuck valve, unable to get a compression test without the Multi-Air box installed.

Multiair Brick removal. | Page 2 | Fiat 500 Forum (fiat500owners.com)

Once you lose that little clip off a plunger, the Multi-Air box needs to be replaced. No ifs ands or buts. I was able to purchase a new one for $1,350 with tax and shipping.

After replacing the Multi-Air box with a new one and installing new plugs and coils, the engine still was running on three cylinders, until it ran for almost 20 minutes. All of a sudden, cylinder 1 started firing and the engine has been running like a top since then.

I have a funny feeling that your head is alright, it's just the Multi-Air box that's the issue.

Good luck.

Have a good day.
sooooooo I removed all of that for nothing great lol well I guess I'll do the timing belt since I'm here. Ill check the cylinder with a borescope just to make sure.

And about that clip, say I lost it somewhere in the bowls of the valve train, I have to find it right? I mean probably, so just so I know what I'm looking for how big is it about and what does it look like?

Thank you for the response!
 

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And about that clip, say I lost it somewhere in the bowls of the valve train, I have to find it right? I mean probably, so just so I know what I'm looking for how big is it about and what does it look like?
It's a 3/4 circle wire about as big as the wire in a bread tie, made out of spring steel. Same diameter as the plunger that it clips over to prevent it from falling out.

I believe that it gets sucked back into the Multi-Air box, which really causes the failure. I couldn't find it and if it does fall out, it will eventually end up down in the oil pan. Really not any place on the valve head that it can hide except between the valve springs and valve stem.

Be sure to read the comments of the video. I answer a few questions that give more info that might not be clear from the video itself.

Good luck.

Have a good day.
 

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What is interesting with Kurt’s post is that I have the same problem with my car. I appreciate the updates as you work through your car. What I have noticed in many of the posts is “engine failure “. What is interesting is the low to no compression in a cylinder. I find it to believe that most of the Fiat 500 at around 60,000 tp 75,000 miles the car suffers loss of compression in a cylinder or two. I can’t figure out if it is a brick issue causing this or a valve train issue or a bent valve but I would only think that if the timing belt broke. I was told I need a complete engine replacement with only 60,000 miles on the odometer with my car. Kurt, please post your findings. Thank you.
 

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Forgive me if I missed it, but I would suggest that you get an Abarth Shop Manual. It might help with where things go and getting your torque values correct. If that head is not properly torqued you can bet you will be blowing bubbles in the radiator (aka a blown head gasket). Please keep us updated on your progress.
 

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In the pictures you can see the lobes are in good shape, And after pulling the turbo off, cylinder 1's exhaust port looked wet as if the exhaust side valves stayed open and the cylinder had no compression at all, the shop that had it before diagnosed it as the valves were to fault.
Yeah... as you can see I've kind of gone passed the point of no return.

While looking at the timing belt there does not appear to be any markings to properly time the engine, is there something I didn't see or I've seen that there's a tool to lock the positions. Would I need this tool to do the timing and remove the head?

Thanks again
View attachment 112278 View attachment 112279
You're a brave young man and seemingly very handy and talented. Good luck and Bravo.
 

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Ok so I will order the timing tool then, So on the multiair even if the missing retaining ring was on the plunger for cylinder two it wouldn't operate cylinder one?
Where did you end up ordering the timing tool kit from? I purchased mine from Amazon for $36 when I had to change my failed oil pump. The quality of the set is impressive for the money and it’s a tool I hope to never need again. It does however include components for specific Alfa and Lancia engines, so you never know when it may come in handy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Sorry haven't posted in a while, I ordered the tool from amazon and it showed up today, I went to the dealership and the belt was on back-order so I'll end up ordering it online. As for progress I've been screwing around with a borescope trying to see what's happening and am waiting for a new mirror attachment that should show up Friday. Today I spent the whole day trying to make a tool to make the multi-air install a bit simpler. I might have failed quite miserably at making the first iteration, the prongs I made to compress the springs didn't have enough leverage and would bend rather than compressing. (will take a picture so you guys can laugh at my incompetence lol)

Tomorrow I'm gonna take apart the multi-air to see if I could possibly clean out the plungers after watching the video from Paulday's thread

will keep you posted thanks again!
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
What is interesting with Kurt’s post is that I have the same problem with my car. I appreciate the updates as you work through your car. What I have noticed in many of the posts is “engine failure “. What is interesting is the low to no compression in a cylinder. I find it to believe that most of the Fiat 500 at around 60,000 tp 75,000 miles the car suffers loss of compression in a cylinder or two. I can’t figure out if it is a brick issue causing this or a valve train issue or a bent valve but I would only think that if the timing belt broke. I was told I need a complete engine replacement with only 60,000 miles on the odometer with my car. Kurt, please post your findings. Thank you.
My car has about 65,000 miles on it, right around the mark where you say things start to go downhill, my timing belt seems to be in good health but since I'm here I might as well replace it, I have the timing tool its a matter of getting the belt and having the time.

Will keep you posted Bennysc1, thanks again
 
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