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Motor Trend does a comparo called "The Unsual Suspects" comparing the offbeat models out now: Mini, 500, Veloster, Beetle, CR-Z, and Scion tC.
I'm suprised they used the Scion tC instead of the iQ. I'm not sure how the U.S. will take to the iQ, Scion/Toyota or not. Unless they change their mind, I hear it will ONLY be available with the CVT (shiftless) automatic transmission in the U.S..

AND, it actually has LESS hp than the Fiat 500.
 

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"You certainly won't be bringing home your new Ikea bookshelf in this one."

On the contrary! I did just that the other week! Hahaha :D
81 inches long and the trunk closed with room to spare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm suprised they used the Scion tC instead of the iQ. I'm not sure how the U.S. will take to the iQ, Scion/Toyota or not. Unless they change their mind, I hear it will ONLY be available with the CVT (shiftless) automatic transmission in the U.S..

AND, it actually has LESS hp than the Fiat 500.
The horsepower's not a huge deal if it's lightweight. CVT-only is a bad idea - despite manuals being on the decline, the take rate seems much higher on smaller, lower-hp cars. Having no manual is what hurt the Smart and early Insight, iirc.
 

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Interesting article...but pretty pointless. They didn't ever define what they were looking for clearly, and just seemed to muddle about making half true comments (I especially liked the Ikea one...Azzurro FTW!). As with all comparison articles, you have to understand that since the people doing the comparing don't have to buy the cars, almost inevitably the cars that cost 25% more do better.
 

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My dad owns a scion tc and i don't know what these guys are talking about. It's a blast to drive and handles really well. Probably the best bang for your buck. You get a lot of car for your money.
 

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There is another factor that is not in the equation- how the car makes YOU feel. I traded in my 2010 Kia Forte Koup for the 500. The Kia Koup just didn't bring a smile on my face. It was a great car, really quick, lots of options and very well made...but I didn't even want to wash it. Zero personality. I was driving an appliance [yawn] The 500 on the other hand is a work of art! The design is beautiful, the fit and finish is top notch, and I am thrilled to drive it. There is no 'review article' that can capture how it makes ME feel. Everywhere I go people stop and stare and smile...nobody is doing that with the scion, the beetle, the crz or the mini.
 

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Everywhere I go people stop and stare and smile...nobody is doing that with the scion, the beetle, the crz or the mini.
I agree with you... except for the Beetle. Even in 2011, my 7+ year old Beetle Turbo S STILL had people stopping to talk to me about their experiences with the classic Beetle (wartime stories, cross-country voyages, etc). The 500 and Beetle are probably equally as fun to own.
 

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I agree with you... except for the Beetle. Even in 2011, my 7+ year old Beetle Turbo S STILL had people stopping to talk to me about their experiences with the classic Beetle (wartime stories, cross-country voyages, etc). The 500 and Beetle are probably equally as fun to own.
I'd have to agree, I used to have a VW and it is another older and unique car that made a huge impact and influenced many people and with the newer models offering a bit of nostalgia similar to how the 500.
 

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Everywhere I go people stop and stare and smile...nobody is doing that with the scion, the beetle, the crz or the mini.
I have to disagree about the CR-Z. They are pretty rare- more so than the MINI. I get questions all the time about the CR-Z, especially from the "Green People". When I do show people and turn the car on and they see the instrumentation I always get a "WWWOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW" . It has the best dash that I have seen on any vehicle. The only thing that sucks is it's power does not match it's appearance and you have to stand on the gas pedal in SPORT mode to have fun with it and that is the reason I want to trade it in on an Abarth.
 

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http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests..._veloster_vs_fiat_500_comparison/viewall.html

Motor Trend does a comparo called "The Unsual Suspects" comparing the offbeat models out now: Mini, 500, Veloster, Beetle, CR-Z, and Scion tC.
Now that I read the article, I agree with everything they say about the CR-Z- except the fuel mileage. In ECON mode on flat highway @ 60- 65 MPH I get a return of 45- 48 MPG's. At 55 MPH I get 50 MPG's easy. This does remind me of when the CR-Z before and after when it first came out how it got kicked in the lug nuts pretty hard but despite that they are now catching on and my dealer can't keep them on the lot so there is hope for the FIAT.

What they left out of the MINI was high cost of ownership after the warranty runs out a long with service once the "free service" runs it's coarse and the reliability. Granted the standard MINI is far more reliable than the "S" but never the less and that's what scares me about the Abarth and one of the reasons I am waiting.
 

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Ooops- I almost forgot. I test drove the Veloster and I have to agree with them there too. Even though it has more HP than the CR-Z it feels and acts like less. It also has a hesitation on throttle from a stop that is very noticeable and poor. The back seat is useless for more than five minutes of use if you are over five foot.
 

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This does remind me of when the CR-Z before and after when it first came out how it got kicked in the lug nuts pretty hard but despite that they are now catching .
the crz catching on?

looks more like it is dying off.

are you talking about in the usa? they sold 305 of them in november, 289 in october, and less than 600 in september. honda has tried too spin it that it is about inventory being low. there is enough inventory for the low demand here. the car just doesnt offer enough. little to no utility. unnecessary hybrid technology...i can get just as good mpg's in the veloster at those speeds.

....and easily got those numbers in the non hybrid 500 as well.

those are the kinds of sales numbers that essetially killed off the smart car here.

no back seat? i own the veloster now and looked extensively at the crz. imo, they should switch places in the survey.

looking at the veloster sales, it is not hard to guess than many buyers who considered the crz went with the veloster. why pay more for hybrid weight, cost, and complexity when it offers no real hybrid benefits to any useful degree?
 

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Interesting article...but pretty pointless. They didn't ever define what they were looking for clearly, and just seemed to muddle about making half true comments (I especially liked the Ikea one...Azzurro FTW!). As with all comparison articles, you have to understand that since the people doing the comparing don't have to buy the cars, almost inevitably the cars that cost 25% more do better.
Mike's thinking right here. They seem to have different standards for different cars. They just don't get it. I owned both the New Beetle for a few years and the MINI for 3 years. Comparing them across the board with much personal experience in each car to judge rightly -- no matter how I cut it -- the FIAT comes out on top. Of course, each car has its pros and cons. It's just that the FIAT 500 is more satisfying overall, and that's not because its a fairly new car for me. It's because the FIAT does a better job of putting the entire package together at a good price.
 

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I drove a CRZ before buying the 500. Really like the car. It didn't have a back seat. The dash was really cool too. Put together well. Liked the 6 speed manual transmission. Also didn't like it cause it was a hybrid.

I like the Veloster, a little. Looks good from certain angles. The Beetle to me is too big, and over priced. Its put together well. Still tooooooooo big............. Big flat hood

I've always like Mini's. They a just too over priced too. Lots of issues $$$$$$ when out of warranty.

My little loaded 500 is just right for. Very happy with my decision. It will hold a Honda lawn mower in the back of it.
 

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the crz catching on?

looks more like it is dying off.

are you talking about in the usa? they sold 305 of them in november, 289 in october, and less than 600 in september. honda has tried too spin it that it is about inventory being low. there is enough inventory for the low demand here. the car just doesnt offer enough. little to no utility. unnecessary hybrid technology...i can get just as good mpg's in the veloster at those speeds.

....and easily got those numbers in the non hybrid 500 as well.

those are the kinds of sales numbers that essetially killed off the smart car here.

no back seat? i own the veloster now and looked extensively at the crz. imo, they should switch places in the survey.

looking at the veloster sales, it is not hard to guess than many buyers who considered the crz went with the veloster. why pay more for hybrid weight, cost, and complexity when it offers no real hybrid benefits to any useful degree?
Settle down Panther. Why does it have to be spin? The CR-Z is made exclusively in Japan which got wiped out during the Earthquake. The CR-Z is a hotter sell across in Europe right now than the U.S. (So is the Fiat for that matter) I have to admit so they are filling those back orders first and only supplying a few to the states. Honda's original plan was to sell only 1500 a month from the get go before the Earthquake so it was never meant to be a volume car where the Vel is. How do you know "many buyers" looked at the CR-Z and then went to buy the Vel? Did you take a pole? Any data to back this up? Did you know the Vel weighs more than the CR-Z? The only thing the Vel has over the CR-Z is price but at just over a hair over $20K which is by no means expensive for a car especially a Hybrid. Besides I will put my reliability and resale value against the Vel any day of the week.

I know your pumped up on your Veloster and I have driven it a long with the CR-Z. All though the CR-Z has less hoarse power the Velos feels like a slug in comparison. Motor Trend backs this up and has the CR-Z faster in 0- 60, 1/4 mile, 60- 0 and the skid pad. Not bad for a hybrid that is a better performer and lighter than the Vel is it? It's interior materials are also of less quality. The rear seat is useless for any adult of average size. I did sit in the back and I am 5' 10" and I had to tilt my head to the side to sit in the back- not a real comfortable way to ride is it? Your the first one I have heard to get those MPG's and my cousin has one. You would have to try very hard to get under 32 MPG's average both city and highway with the CR-Z. On the CR-Z Forums a vast majority are at 35 - 37 MPG both city and highway. We only have one guy at 29 MPG and that's because he pounds the snot out of his on the highway and city and races it.

Have you even driven a CR-Z or are these just assumptions you made up? Since I have driven both, between the two the CR-Z wins hands down.

By the way you can order a back seat for it if you want but it would be just as useless as the Vel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Mike's thinking right here. They seem to have different standards for different cars. They just don't get it. I owned both the New Beetle for a few years and the MINI for 3 years. Comparing them across the board with much personal experience in each car to judge rightly -- no matter how I cut it -- the FIAT comes out on top.
I agree the 500 is a better all-rounder than the Mini that won, stock for stock - I'd still give the edge to the Mini without the run-flats ruining its ride but then there's still the price. Comparisons between the Mini and Fiat always seem to highlight one issue to me: gearing. The Fiat has 98ft-lbs of torque at 4000rpm, the heavier Mini has 114ft-lbs at 4250, yet the Mini is seen as peppier off the line and scores a better 0-60. This is directly related to their different gearing ratios and the 500's need to shift into 3rd to hit 60. First and second gear are just plain too short. See below

Mini Cooper:
1 - 3.214
2 - 1.792
3 - 1.194
4 - 0.914
5 - 0.784
Final Drive: 4.35

Fiat 500:
1 - 3.91
2 - 2.16
3 - 1.35
4 - 0.97
5 - 0.77
Final Drive 3.73

Getrag makes the Mini's manual box - who makes the 500's? I know Aisin makes the automatics for both. Taking first to 3.5 and 2nd to 1.9 would put the Fiat to 60 at 500rpm below redline with a smoother transition to 3rd.
 

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Did anyone else notice this article had the flavour of "first-glance" analysis? The hallmark of these kinds of reviews is that the reviewer has really not spent much time with the product. What this causes is remarks based on first impressions that will change, paired with no mention of characteristics that experienced users all know.

The Mini will cost a lot lot more to own and operate. O.k., the expensive service is because it's a BMW! Does it surprise you that it handles well - duh! We got the 5 speed because they were worried about the dopey automatic trans. they would have to cram into the 500 for the American market. While the Europeans get a nice six-speed manual. So we were out of the running for a head-to-head with a Beamer right from the start.
 

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Settle down Panther. Why does it have to be spin? The CR-Z is made exclusively in Japan which got wiped out during the Earthquake. The CR-Z is a hotter sell across in Europe right now than the U.S. (So is the Fiat for that matter) I have to admit so they are filling those back orders first and only supplying a few to the states. Honda's original plan was to sell only 1500 a month from the get go before the Earthquake so it was never meant to be a volume car where the Vel is. How do you know "many buyers" looked at the CR-Z and then went to buy the Vel? Did you take a pole? Any data to back this up? Did you know the Vel weighs more than the CR-Z? The only thing the Vel has over the CR-Z is price but at just over a hair over $20K which is by no means expensive for a car especially a Hybrid. Besides I will put my reliability and resale value against the Vel any day of the week.

I know your pumped up on your Veloster and I have driven it a long with the CR-Z. All though the CR-Z has less hoarse power the Velos feels like a slug in comparison. Motor Trend backs this up and has the CR-Z faster in 0- 60, 1/4 mile, 60- 0 and the skid pad. Not bad for a hybrid that is a better performer and lighter than the Vel is it? It's interior materials are also of less quality. The rear seat is useless for any adult of average size. I did sit in the back and I am 5' 10" and I had to tilt my head to the side to sit in the back- not a real comfortable way to ride is it? Your the first one I have heard to get those MPG's and my cousin has one. You would have to try very hard to get under 32 MPG's average both city and highway with the CR-Z. On the CR-Z Forums a vast majority are at 35 - 37 MPG both city and highway. We only have one guy at 29 MPG and that's because he pounds the snot out of his on the highway and city and races it.

Have you even driven a CR-Z or are these just assumptions you made up? Since I have driven both, between the two the CR-Z wins hands down.

By the way you can order a back seat for it if you want but it would be just as useless as the Vel.
- most of my whole tanks have been over 40 mpg's in the V. (and that is with the winter formulated gas. the dopes who get crappy mileage in the v would also get crappy mileage in the crz because it is a driving problem, not a car problem.

-if you read my post you would know i have driven the crz.

-many forum members at veloster.org have either previously owned the crz or strongly considered it...thats what makes me think many have looked at both.

-the back seast available on the crz is NOT USEFUL. it is smaller than the v's, too high, and entry to it would be ridiculous. my 79 yr old dad has used my back seat many times, so id say entry to it is quite easy BECAUSE it has a back door.

-they can already supply the usa with more crz's than people want. heck, they sold more of them earlier this year when inventory was lower. even guys on the crz forum agree than honda is feeding a line of bs abbout inventory when they can barely move 300 of them in a month.

-if you read the earlier press releases, honda expected the car to be more mainstream. they simply failed in the execution of th crz for the n. american market.

here is an example of the myth of low inventory: (these are cars in october with the most days sitiing on lots)

90 days average sitting on a lot. if there was any demand and/or shortage of inventory, this would not be happening. nobody wants the crz. so, its clear low inventory is not the issue. low demand is the issue. there are too many better choices if one is going to spend $20k and not even have a back seat, get true hybrid like mileage, or have any true performance. yes, the v is slow, the 500 is slow....but the crz being a bit faster doesnt make it fast.
October 2011 Cars.com Picks
  • 2011 Ford Flex: 124 days
  • 2011 Chevrolet Traverse: 106 days
  • 2011 Nissan Quest: 105 days
  • 2011 Mazda RX-8: 101 days
  • 2011 Honda CR-Z: 90 days
 

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The K engine has already been put into the CRZ. Try doing that with a Veloster. :)

I'd agree that the "review" looks like it was assembled over breakfast one day, and doesn't really have much interesting to say that I wouldn't get myself from reading the websites of each manufacturer.
 
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