Fiat 500 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have read conflicting reports about charging the 500e. We were told by the dealer to keep the car topped up by charging overnight rather than wait until the charge has reduced to, say, 30% or less before charging. What is the truth here? Is continually charging the battery up to 100% a good idea or will it mean the battery degrades quicker? Is there any concrete scientific data one way or the other ??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
I have read conflicting reports about charging the 500e. We were told by the dealer to keep the car topped up by charging overnight rather than wait until the charge has reduced to, say, 30% or less before charging. What is the truth here? Is continually charging the battery up to 100% a good idea or will it mean the battery degrades quicker? Is there any concrete scientific data one way or the other ??
You should charge according to usage and comfort. If you have lots of short trips that take little battery, then allowing the SOC to drop is OK. However, if you have unpredictable longer trips, keeping the car at 100% is a good idea.

As Electric Tire Shredder will point out, FIAT has set their batteries so that fully charged is only 95% of the actual capacity of the battery. Keeping it topped at 100% SOC as defined by the car will not cause any significant degradation.

ga2500ev
 

·
Registered
2016 500e
Joined
·
43 Posts
I try to limit the time when the car is at low or high SOH. So my L2 at home is programmer to turn on at 3AM, so the car would be at 100 percent before I leave, but it would not be sitting at full charge for all night. I do about 80-100 kms a day.
Is this something that can also be done with the built in charge timer on a car like my 2016 500e?
I converted the stock oem charger to 240v so I can charge in about 4hrs. Be nice to do in morning so battery is warmed up when time to leave.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Is this something that can also be done with the built in charge timer on a car like my 2016 500e?
I converted the stock oem charger to 240v so I can charge in about 4hrs. Be nice to do in morning so battery is warmed up when time to leave.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
You can absolutely do this. Set a charging window in the car, and just plug it in when you're back home for the night.

Ideally, the charging should be finished just by the time you leave. This saves both high-SOC time, and you get a warm battery before your trip if the weather is colder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I try to limit the time when the car is at low or high SOC. So my L2 at home is programmed to turn on at 3AM, so the car would be at 100 percent before I leave, but it would not be sitting at full charge for all night. I do about 80-100 kms a day.
That's a great idea thanks!
 

·
Registered
2016 500e
Joined
·
43 Posts
Very cool. I do not have to have 100% for my daily. Anything over 80% is more than fine, though we will see how that goes with cold weather, heaters, etc. Current highest usage has been 58%.

I have seen typically to say 4.5hrs to 100% when I plug in each evening. So I will likely set it so it has run 4hrs around the time I typically leave with a scheduled total run of 5hrs.. That way it is charging when I go out to leave and I can preheat interior from house power as well as reduce HV relay cycles.. I assume it will auto shutdown if it reaches 100% before end of schedule?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
I assume it will auto shutdown if it reaches 100% before end of schedule?
It certainly does shut down on complete charge. Setting the charge window in the car (instead of EVSE) also prevents you from getting "goalposts" (the rightmost and the leftmost charge indicators blinking), which some find scary (although there's nothing to be scared of).

Myself I use a ChargePoint Flex EVSE, which as a neat feature of overriding the timer if you plug in twice. So if I know that the car is not gonna go anywhere that day, I just plug it in. Now if I see that I have another trip to do and the battery does not have enough juice, I plug in, unplug, and then plug in back again, and the EVSE starts charging immediately.

With several L2 charges, I've managed to handle 250+ kilometres a day ;-)
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
3,175 Posts
I just read in the 2019 Fiat manual that the car itself over-rides its own timer if you plug/unplug/plug within 10 seconds. It's not in the 2013 manual, but it still might work on other years.

Is continually charging the battery up to 100% a good idea or will it mean the battery degrades quicker? Is there any concrete scientific data one way or the other ??
There's a lot of good info about this at batteryuniversity.com & also pushEVs.com

I haven't seen the relevant specs for jimgardner's 2021, but for 2013-19, true 100% charge is impossible, since it stops charging at 4.1V/cell, which is about 85-90% of the real full capacity. Tesla says that even just keeping it below 95% will double battery life compared to 100%.

Still, even keeping it at its 85% limit all the time will mean the battery degrades slightly less slowly than keeping it around 60%, which I find pretty easy, but is even easier with the 2021's larger range.

But it doesn't seem worth inconveniencing yourself, with no issues caused from sitting topped off during HALF of a typical car's entire life: 40-mile US-average daily drive, plug immediately into L2 "just in case", & then sitting fully charged from 8PM to 8AM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
[QUOTE="fiatatat, post: 1307652, member: 110606"

Myself I use a ChargePoint Flex EVSE, which as a neat feature of overriding the timer if you plug in twice.... I plug in, unplug, and then plug in back again, and the EVSE starts charging immediately.

[/QUOTE]

You mean If you plug in twice, you override the timer? I think my daughter discovered that by accident last week. My Charge timer is 'OFF' 4pm to 9pm during peak hours. She couldn't understand how to override the timer, but "accidently" it started to charge.

How do I get to the Fiat menu to change the timer settings.
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
3,175 Posts
Early models, with key on at least one click, tap the wiper stalk tip if needed to get the pic of the car on the screen & then hit the menu button at its lower right.

Later models it's on the center screen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Early models, with key on at least one click, tap the wiper stalk tip if needed to get the pic of the car on the screen & then hit the menu button at its lower right.

Later models it's on the center screen.
Thank you Tom, I was going crazy trying to remember how i set my timer.
It's on the video display!

I'm on the Edison's T-O-U-Prime rate plan. For Electric car owners: The service address on your Edison Bill must be the same as the address on the Car's Registration.

Peak time is 4:00pm to 9:00pm the rate is .38c per kWh. The rest of the day it's .14c per kWh.

(If you plug in at 3:45 you will charge for 15 minutes... then the car goes into stand by. The lights blink in order until 9:00pm... then the charger comes on.

(I'll wait until this evening and see if I can actually override the charger by plugging in and out twice.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
[QUOTE="fiatatat, post: 1307652, member: 110606"

Myself I use a ChargePoint Flex EVSE, which as a neat feature of overriding the timer if you plug in twice.... I plug in, unplug, and then plug in back again, and the EVSE starts charging immediately.
You mean If you plug in twice, you override the timer? I think my daughter discovered that by accident last week. My Charge timer is 'OFF' 4pm to 9pm during peak hours. She couldn't understand how to override the timer, but "accidently" it started to charge.



I tried it last night with my home level one charger. It didn't work. Maybe only 'Charge Point' chargers do that.

I now have written instructions in the glove box with the card. Charge point also informed me they will charge $5 an hour while parked at a charge point charger and not taking a charge.

I don't blame them, hogging a charger just for the convenient parking spot isn't right. Besides, they text you when you are full or not charging.
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
3,175 Posts
I currently only have 2013 & '19 manuals, so I don't know which model year switched to read like the 2019 does on Pg 29 of the pdf:

"If a charging schedule has been enabled and you are outside the time and date, you may override the schedule for this charging event by plugging in the charge connector, unplugging it, and then plugging it back into the vehicle charge inlet. Complete the double plug sequence within ten seconds for it to override the set schedule."

Click to enlarge:
Font Rectangle Screenshot Parallel Software
 

·
Registered
2021 Fiat 500e La Prima
Joined
·
10 Posts
Much of the info in this thread relates to North America and not to the 2021 New Fiat 500 which I have.

I've received no guidance from the UK dealer or Fiat on charging strategy. My practice is to avoid the battery going below 20% so I've always got enough energy for a short journey.

My charging arrangements are from a combination of PV panels and a storage battery and from the grid for which I'm on the Octopus Agle tariff. My practice has been to charge to car when there is free solar energy available or the grid price per kWh is low, taking the car up to 100% if those circumstances permit.

When charging from solar I set the car's charging level to 2 so I don't exceed the power rating of my solar system and avoid drawing energy from the grid. When charging from the grid, I set the car's charging level to max (5) which charges at 7kW, the max rating of my Zappi charger.

This was, of course, before Octopus started charging me at their ceiling £0.35 / kWh all day due to the current wholesale energy price hike.
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
3,175 Posts
Much of this thread relates to charging ANY EV, or for that matter any lithium-ion battery, such as a phone, laptop or power tool: Just avoid the absolute extremes:
  • The very worst thing for any of the above is storage near zero, because that will irretrievably kill the battery completely if it has time to self-discharge below its safe limit. Someone recently reported losing 25% while parked 7 weeks. If it started at only 25% it might have killed it.
  • As long as the device limits the full charge to 95% or less, then leaving it there is only a VERY slight aging factor*.
Anything between those extremes is fine. The closer to 60% the better, & apparently going to 20 is better than going to 80 (lab test at PushEVs.com), but it doesn't seem to make enough difference to bother putting much effort into it unless you really want to "baby" it.



*A big reason early Leafs age so fast is apparently that their full charge is about 98%. That's a triple-whammy since their tiny range also makes users want to keep them full just in case, AND their tiny batteries reach full charge sooner, sitting even longer at full charge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Much of this thread relates to charging ANY EV, or for that matter any lithium-ion battery, such as a phone, laptop or power tool: Just avoid the absolute extremes:
  • The very worst thing for any of the above is storage near zero, because that will irretrievably kill the battery completely if it has time to self-discharge below its safe limit. Someone recently reported losing 25% while parked 7 weeks. If it started at only 25% it might have killed it.
  • As long as the device limits the full charge to 95% or less, then leaving it there is only a VERY slight aging factor*.
Anything between those extremes is fine. The closer to 60% the better, & apparently going to 20 is better than going to 80 (lab test at PushEVs.com), but it doesn't seem to make enough difference to bother putting much effort into it unless you really want to "baby" it.



*A big reason early Leafs age so fast is apparently that their full charge is about 98%. That's a triple-whammy since their tiny range also makes users want to keep them full just in case, AND their tiny batteries reach full charge sooner, sitting even longer at full charge.
"*A big reason early Leafs age so fast is"
That and Leafs do not have a liquid cooling system. (I'll bet they sell real cheap in Las Vegas and Phoenix)
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
3,175 Posts
"*A big reason early Leafs age so fast is" That and Leafs do not have a liquid cooling system.
I used to think that too but I'm no longer certain, since the air-cooled eGolf seems fine :unsure:.
Apparently eGolf max charge is about 92%, putting them well under Tesla's "95% for double life".

Another factor is simply battery size, since it takes less time for the small 1st-gen Leaf battery to get hot.

Also, our 1st-gen Fiat batteries seem to generate VERY little of their own heat during use, so another big factor may be differences such as the exact chemistry*, electrode surface texture, case shape, etc.




* There are different proportions of the same chemicals, such as NCM 811** and NCM 622, with quite different characteristics.
** Nickel Cobalt Manganese at 80%, 10%, & 10%, respectively.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
A Leaf owner up north told me:


On the Dash display, the charge is the 12 long white bars. This car is at 100% charge and then guess-o-meter says 130 km. (70 miles) On the outside are 12 short bars indicating the drive batteries health. As the battery degrades,you lose a short bar. They say you lose the first bar within a year. This car has lost 4 and it's not that old. I suspect it's from Las Vegas or Phoenix and it's the heat.

The warranty is for 8 years and drive battery replacement require you are down to 8 or less short bars. They come with a Chademo port, as an extra along with J1772.

My daughter was disappointed, she already had a name for the car". "Liam"... get it? "Liam Nissan?"
Gadget Automotive design Font Display device Personal luxury car
[/QUOTE]
 

·
Registered
2013 FIAT 500e
Joined
·
3,175 Posts
Ya, what I meant is that I no longer blame the early Leafs' rapid aging PRIMARILY on air-cooling. If it had a bigger battery, maybe with better chemistry/construction, that only charged to 92% it would probably be fine with air cooling, just like an eGolf seems to be.

As for the Leaf degradation warranty, at least in the beginning Nissan reportedly had a software cheat to make it show 9 bars even when capacity was down to half, so they didn't have to warranty it :mad:.

I read about pending legislation requiring degradation warranty AND easily user-accessed capacity numbers on the car's display, not like ours requiring OBD (& even then extremely inaccurate, although I don't know how they'd legislate that)
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top