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Discussion Starter #1
Hey I would like to ask what do you think about the Chevy volt and the BMW I3?
i3 is my favorite gas car, when you get it with the "REx" range extender. Favorite because it goes much further without using gas, than any other gas car (such as a Volt).

Volt 1st-generation gas car might be the winner for "longest lasting HV battery", if the reports are true that it always stays between 30% & 70% (our Fiats charge to about 85%, & even that seems to give incredible longevity).

They both require oil changes though, & other engine maintenance, even if you never, ever burn any gas in them, although I suppose if that was the case, you could remove or at least deactivate the gas engine, but why bother when you could just get a pure EV (like a 500e, or an i3 without the REx) & rent a gas car for road trips (or just drive to the airport).
 

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...But why bother when you could just get a pure EV (like a 500e, or an i3 without the REx) & rent a gas car for road trips (or just drive to the airport).
Because that's not the only gap onboard ICE range extension fills. There are at least two others. First is the gap when the plan is all electric and changes in the plan leaves the EV without enough juice. Eventually there will be enough charging stations to cover this situation. But until then the REx can cover.

The other situation is the one you described above. The problem with renting a gas gas or flying is the deprivation of the electric car for the entire trip. With a REx the actual travel will be a combination of gas and electric. But then it's possible to switch back to 100% electric operation at the destination.

The REx is an imperfect solution. But it's a lot less imperfect than a lot of others. It's one of the reasons why I'd probably pull the trigger on an i3 REx if I can find the right car at the right price.

ga2500ev
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Right, & ideally for long trips you'd rent a long-range electric or PHEV from home or the destination, but what I actually meant was "why bother removing the engine from a PHEV".
 

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Because that's not the only gap onboard ICE range extension fills. There are at least two others. First is the gap when the plan is all electric and changes in the plan leaves the EV without enough juice. Eventually there will be enough charging stations to cover this situation. But until then the REx can cover.

The other situation is the one you described above. The problem with renting a gas gas or flying is the deprivation of the electric car for the entire trip. With a REx the actual travel will be a combination of gas and electric. But then it's possible to switch back to 100% electric operation at the destination.

The REx is an imperfect solution. But it's a lot less imperfect than a lot of others. It's one of the reasons why I'd probably pull the trigger on an i3 REx if I can find the right car at the right price.

ga2500ev
[/QUOT I am thinking to buy an I3 but I don’t know that year and with how many miles on it will be best
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I am thinking to buy an I3 but I don’t know that year and with how many miles on it will be best
Well it has less range than a Fiat, if you get the 2014-thru-2017 model with the 60Ah battery, so there's no point in that one unless you get it with the high-maintenance "REx" range extender.

If you get the 94 Ah version, 2017 got 114 miles & 2018 got 107.

With the REx they can go about 55mph non-stop on gas, once the battery runs out.

Also, I would personally delve deep into range loss issues, since two of the few drivers I met at public chargers had measurable loss. It doesn't seem to be truly liquid cooled like our Fiats, using instead some sort of "secret" A/C system.

ga2500ev will be able to give you more/better info, since he's been considering one, although the longer he can put that off, the less he'll need it, as more charging stations go in & more high-range fast-charging EVs become available used, or if the Fiat fast-charge upgrade finally comes out.
 

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From what I've read, the problem with the i3 range loss isn't due to cooling issues, but with the unintended consequence of running the Rex. The Rex kicks in once the battery gets low or depleted and stays low for an extended period of time. In a normal plug in electric you would recharge once the battery gets low or else you couldn't drive it anymore. But in the i3 Rex you could with the Rex kicking in and thus the battery stays at a low state of charge for longer than it should. We all know that the 2 extreme state of charges are bad for the battery life and that seems to be the case here.
 

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From what I've read, the problem with the i3 range loss isn't due to cooling issues, but with the unintended consequence of running the Rex. The Rex kicks in once the battery gets low or depleted and stays low for an extended period of time. In a normal plug in electric you would recharge once the battery gets low or else you couldn't drive it anymore. But in the i3 Rex you could with the Rex kicking in and thus the battery stays at a low state of charge for longer than it should. We all know that the 2 extreme state of charges are bad for the battery life and that seems to be the case here.
What do you mean 2 extreme states of charges?
 

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Not that I'm aware of. But say if you know that you're not going to drive the car over the weekend then don't charge it to full on Friday and leave it full until Monday. 2-3 days isn't terrible, but it's not great. Same with the other extreme, don't leave the car empty without recharging it. I also charge twice a day because I drive close to 100 miles a day and it's fine.
 

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Not that I'm aware of. But say if you know that you're not going to drive the car over the weekend then don't charge it to full on Friday and leave it full until Monday. 2-3 days isn't terrible, but it's not great. Same with the other extreme, don't leave the car empty without recharging it. I also charge twice a day because I drive close to 100 miles a day and it's fine.
Yes I charge twice a day do you think using L1 is healthier for the battery that using L2?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
All great points. Also remember that Fiat only charges to about 85% of true full capacity. I don't know what the low-end buffer is. For long-term storage it's best to keep it around 60%, so if you're staying home all weekend that would also be the ideal level for Friday night, & then top of Sunday night ready for Monday morning.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It's quite possible that some or all* i3s have less buffer than Fiat, top &/or bottom. The latter would make it particularly susceptible to the "left uncharged" issue mentioned above.

*could be different on different model years &/or battery sizes. For example, 2nd-gen Volt apparently has smaller buffers than 1st-gen, which is part of what gives the former more electric range.
 

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What do you mean 2 extreme states of charges?
It is best to minimize the length of time the battery sits at 0-20% and at 80-100%. Long term storage is best at 60%. I try to time my battery charge cycle so it tops off just before I use it in the morning.

Even Apple has gone on board with the topping off of their iPhone batteries. The latest operating system update learns the user's daily routine and charges the phone battery to 80% initially when you put it on the charger, and then completes the 80-100% charge shortly before you normally unplug it for the day. About Optimized Battery Charging on your iPhone
 

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I am thinking to buy an I3 but I don’t know that year and with how many miles on it will be best.
Not enough information to determine an answer to this question. What exactly do you need from out of the car? The 500e doesn't seem to meet your needs. So what are those needs?

How much are you willing to spend? Almost all i3's in the used market are a minimum of double the price of a corresponding 500e.

What charging infrastructure will the car be operating in? Is there DCFC everywhere are is it a charging desert?

As ETS pointed out above, every i3 up to 2016 is going to have less range than the 500e. It does add the advantage of DCFC charging and possible REx options. 2017 and later are running in the low $20k range. At that point buying a new Chevy Bolt with all its current discounts may make more sense.

But without clearly defined needs and a clearly defined operating environment, there's no good answers to your questions. I believe that I've asked you several times what you expected out of the 500e with no response. Without additional information it's going to be tough to help out with suggestions.

ga2500ev
 

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With the REx they can go about 55mph non-stop on gas, once the battery runs out.
Not a completely accurate statement. With standard coding, an i3 REx can operate a bit faster than 55 MPH. However, an i3 REx that is properly configured in an European configuration does not have these limitations as the REx can be engaged at any SOC below 75%. In those cases the full capability of the i3 is available for the entire trip. BMW and California's Air Resources Board played some political games to create a special category for the i3 REx that essentially designated it as an "pure" EV even though it carried an ICE engine. The two crippling factors were REx engagement only at 6.5% SOC and a gas tank whose range did not exceed the electric range of the i3. Recoding eliminates the first factor and frees up the entire gas tank for the 2nd. It's still only 2.4 gallons though so the gas range between refills is only about 60-70 miles per refill.
ga2500ev will be able to give you more/better info, since he's been considering one, although the longer he can put that off, the less he'll need it, as more charging stations go in & more high-range fast-charging EVs become available used, or if the Fiat fast-charge upgrade finally comes out.
The used EV market isn't really moving. 2017 Bolts coming off lease are near $20k. Makes little sense when brand new 2020's are only $5k more. Let's not even talk about Tesla Model 3's.

I'm thinking it's going to be another 5 years before upgraded EVs fit into the same bucket that 500e's, Leafs, SoulEVs, SparkEVs, E-Golfs, i3's, and the like are in now.

ga2500ev
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Ya, I just checked & even a 125-mile eGolf with DCFC is nearly $20k. That might drop if the id4 comes in Jan, but if not then it's back to a Fiat with a hopefully-soon-available DC kit. Also hopefully, new chargers going in might not get delayed by Covid, if there are Dieselgate deadlines & rebate/subsidy expirations.
 

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Electrify America are opening stations here in the Southeast even during the pandemic. They are still spaced too far apart to take EVs in the range of the 500e out on the road. For some reason they seem to be clustering around big cities. For example there are now 4 EA stations open within 50 miles of my house.

But in the end it's going to be tough sledding finding the right combination of range, charging speed, charger placement, and price to create a used EV market where folks can have a reasonably priced EV as their sole vehicle.

I'm fine with a local range car. So I won't fall into the above category. But I do need faster charging for occasional range extension.

ga2500ev
 

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There is currently no way to have the car stop at 80% charge is there? You’d have to gander a guess via timer?
 
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