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There is currently no way to have the car stop at 80% charge is there? You’d have to gander a guess via timer?
Either a timer or something along the lines of the my500e device which tracks the SOC via OBD and controls the activation and deactivation of charging.

None of that data is really secret. It's just undocumented. The 500e is likely easy to figure out as the Bosch developers used different components to put the car together along with CanBus for communication. A diligent documentation effort to capture the relevant data and commands could put together a system to have complete control of charging.

I had held out hope for the Wifi my500e. But now that I see that the plan is to charge online server fee subscriptions to use the device, I'm really not that interested anymore.

ga2500ev
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Last time I checked, ChargePoint was significantly more expensive. My best friend has an OLD JuiceBox* that's been working great for 99.9% of all her driving since she got a 500e in 2016, & it has more than enough capacity to max out her new Tesla 3's onboard charger.

* Doesn't even have WiFi or anything. Just plug & unplug like the OEM only 5 x as fast.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
But in the end it's going to be tough sledding finding the right combination of range, charging speed, charger placement, and price to create a used EV market where folks can have a reasonably priced EV as their sole vehicle.

My sole vehicle is a 500e:
  • Range: Over double the average daily range in mild weather. Even at -15 Farenheit it's still over one daily drive.
  • Charging Speed: Full average daily mild-weather drive recharged from a standard wall outlet in 8 hours of sleep OR work. 95 minutes on L2, full recharge (for -15F, or over-double-daily drive) in 4 hours.
  • Charger Placement: Home! ;) Obviously public charging varies GREATLY by location, but there are already at least 13 free L2 chargers that I know of, right on my normal 17-mile-each-way trip, where I sometimes plug in while I'm online & it's usually done before I am.
  • Price: $6k used. Recently over a dozen listed locally at that price.
 

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What’s the juice box price, and can you really set the charge amount ?
The answer to the second question is technically no. The JB, nor any other EVSE, can get data back from the car with the actual SOC. What it does instead is compute the approximate kWh needed to get between the start SOC level and the target SOC level and provide energy for the time required to deliver that amount of kWh. It's a good approximation. But by definition since there is no information about the battery coming back during the charge, it's not perfect.

ga2500ev
 

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My sole vehicle is a 500e:
  • Range: Over double the average daily range in mild weather. Even at -15 Farenheit it's still over one daily drive.
  • Charging Speed: Full average daily mild-weather drive recharged from a standard wall outlet in 8 hours of sleep OR work. 95 minutes on L2, full recharge (for -15F, or over-double-daily drive) in 4 hours.
  • Charger Placement: Home! ;) Obviously public charging varies GREATLY by location, but there are already at least 13 free L2 chargers that I know of, right on my normal 17-mile-each-way trip, where I sometimes plug in while I'm online & it's usually done before I am.
  • Price: $6k used. Recently over a dozen listed locally at that price.
As I said in another post, it takes a special kind of crazy to be a 500e owner. An average driver simply is not going to accept any of the limitations you outline above, even at a $6k price for a 3-4 year old car.

I sit in bookstores, malls, and coffee shops waiting for charges because I have to have the charge, not because I need to be in the bookstore, mall, or coffee shop. No matter how it is spun, average people are simply not going to buy into that. Or the limited range. The double the daily range doesn't matter to them. What matters is what happens when their car is sitting on 2% and they have a meeting to be in across town in an hour. Or like one of my daughters whose job routinely has 150 mile days.

I've told my "out of electrons" story several times here. There was absolutely nothing special about that day or the trips involved in them. The 500e simply did not have the infrastructure to keep up with what would be a usual "unusual" day for anyone else. I didn't have the needed range. I didn't have 95 minutes to charge. I didn't have a fast charging option. It just didn't work.

There are still cost effective options, as I listed above IIRC. But we have to find somewhere between average and exceptional (like a 1500 mile road trip) in which to have a discussion about lower cost used EVs as a daily driver.

ga2500ev
 

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Is juice box better than ChargePoint ?
Just a little bit tongue in cheek. If I asked you which of three extension cords were better, how would you answer?

EVSEs have been marketing genius for manufacturers. They took something completely ordinary, an extension cord, and turned it into an expensive, branded, marketed item.

Which EVSE works for an individual depends on the features they need/want. My Bosch 30A is only better than the stock OEM EVSE because it advertises more available power for example.

As I've said over several posts, figure out what you need, then you can figure out what to get. I'm sure we'd all be happy to help if you told us what you needed.

ga2500ev
 

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Discussion Starter #31
An average driver simply is not going to accept any of the limitations you outline above...
Maybe I'm missing something, or didn't explain it well, but I'm not limited in any way. Neither me nor the average person is going to sit around waiting to charge*, but we don't need to, since it will fully recharge while we sleep (or work), & then drive over 2 times as far as "average". Certainly it won't work for someone who can't charge at home OR work, or "routinely has 150 mile days" (unless maybe they have L2 at home AND work), or for someone who would be "at 2%" (drove over double the daily average since breakfast!) & might then need to drive across town, but I don't think either of those is "average", HOWEVER...

Maybe my impression of "average" is incorrect. Nearly everyone I know has a pretty strict weekday schedule: To work & back, maybe a few extra miles for kids school, maybe a few for lunch, & maybe a few for evenings out. Then 8 hours minimum at home to sleep. After 5 days of that, even on weekends they don't often feel like driving more than 80 miles/day & are still home at least 8 hours to sleep. Total of about 15,000 miles/year (41 mi/day), which is the national avg. Again, it won't work for the great many minority cases who periodically need to go much further as noted above, but again, I don't THINK that's "average", although I certainly could be wrong.

* I just stop at public chargers once in a while when I'd rather sit online there, than at home.
 

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Just a little bit tongue in cheek. If I asked you which of three extension cords were better, how would you answer?

EVSEs have been marketing genius for manufacturers. They took something completely ordinary, an extension cord, and turned it into an expensive, branded, marketed item.

Which EVSE works for an individual depends on the features they need/want. My Bosch 30A is only better than the stock OEM EVSE because it advertises more available power for example.

As I've said over several posts, figure out what you need, then you can figure out what to get. I'm sure we'd all be happy to help if you told us what you needed.

ga2500ev
I need 40 amps and WiFi charger
 

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Discussion Starter #33

Or

 

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Maybe I'm missing something, or didn't explain it well, but I'm not limited in any way. Neither me nor the average person is going to sit around waiting to charge*, but we don't need to, since it will fully recharge while we sleep (or work), & then drive over 2 times as far as "average". Certainly it won't work for someone who can't charge at home OR work, or "routinely has 150 mile days" (unless maybe they have L2 at home AND work), or for someone who would be "at 2%" (drove over double the daily average since breakfast!) & might then need to drive across town, but I don't think either of those is "average", HOWEVER...

Maybe my impression of "average" is incorrect. Nearly everyone I know has a pretty strict weekday schedule: To work & back, maybe a few extra miles for kids school, maybe a few for lunch, & maybe a few for evenings out. Then 8 hours minimum at home to sleep. After 5 days of that, even on weekends they don't often feel like driving more than 80 miles/day & are still home at least 8 hours to sleep. Total of about 15,000 miles/year (41 mi/day), which is the national avg. Again, it won't work for the great many minority cases who periodically need to go much further as noted above, but again, I don't THINK that's "average", although I certainly could be wrong.

* I just stop at public chargers once in a while when I'd rather sit online there, than at home.
You explained it just fine. It's just that we are talking about two completely different scenarios. Your ordinary day scenario I pretty much agree with. But the ordinary ICE driver doesn't only think about that scenario. The more extreme examples are really not out of the ordinary, but simply discounting them doesn't resolve the issue.

Simple example, which I have actually done before. Say that I decide today (Saturday) to visit my mother for Mother's day tomorrow. She is 500 miles away. All I have is a 500e. With an ICE (again I have done something like this before), I check a couple of items, get in the car, drive the 500 miles, and get to where I want to go.

There's no way to do this with a 500e, or any other used EV under $20k except for an i3 REx. I know all the alternatives of renting a car, or flying to get there. But the simple truth of the matter is that the electric vehicle cannot do something on its own that virtually any ICE vehicle can routinely accomplish. So that's a limitation. A limitation that we all accept. But it's not a limitation that the mass car buying public is going to buy into.

People don't buy their transportation for just average days. When you get questions from the car buying public about EVs, it's always about the "what if" of the more extreme circumstance. "What if" they are low on charge, it's raining, and its late? "What if" there is an emergency with family and they need to be somewhere 200 miles away in 4 hours? These are answered questions with ICE vehicles, even $2000 or $2500 ones. With fast enough charging, and enough charging stations spaced out, even a 500e range EV could answer a lot of those questions. While we are not there yet, we do need to address those issues.

While I was only impacted by this one and only one time, it affected my thinking enough to keep asking the questions.

ga2500ev
 

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Discussion Starter #39
"What if" there is an emergency with family and they need to be somewhere 200 miles away in 4 hours?
Aha! There it is! I don't happen to know anyone with mid-distance close relatives. They're all either under 100 or over 2,000 miles away.

I wonder what's "average" for that, & whether the average person has no access to a family/friend long-range car.

For example, if I wanted to go to Vegas I'd swap with my ex-500e friend's Tesla 3. She'd probably go with me though. :rolleyes:

Hmm. Since we're talking BIG bucks for the long-distance vehicles, I wonder how it compares to a DC kit AND battery upgrade. Also thinking someone should be able to make a REx kit from a portable gas generator mounted on a bike rack, powering a JuiceBox. The only real problem is making it charge while driving.
 

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I'm glad you can see an example or two. There are lots of people who will not have anyone they can swap cars with. The entire point for many folks is that their sole car serves all of their needs. So while you have the opportunity to swap in these limited situations, and I have multiple vehicles, there will be a lot of folks who will be completely unwilling to compromise on much of anything in terms of the usage of their car.

ga2500ev
 
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