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The price gets amortized by selling a lot of cars. To sell a lot of cars, the prices have to be lower. Only Tesla by jumping in 100% has been able to pull that off. I fear that legacy automakers are going to get caught in the Innovator's Dilemma that we've seen so far of dipping their toes into EVs while continuing to support their profitable ICE industry.

Total cost of ownership only works with really smart people. Average people only see two things: list price and monthly payment. No matter how much money is saved on fuel and maintenance, if the list price and monthly payment are out of range, most folks are not even going to look at the vehicle. Going 3 years on my 2014 500e, I've only bought tires, wipers, and tail lights. So I understand the impact of lower maintenace cost. But it's a tough sell to most folks as they only see higher cost out the door and higher loan/lease payments.

ga2500ev
 

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Discussion Starter #82
  • I guess some people aren't smart enough to see the monthly payment (used or lease) is the same as they've been paying just for gas.
  • 2021 500e list prices I've seen (including the vid above) are not only fully loaded, they're special edition. Base price would be lower.
  • Battery cost has supposedly been dropping about 15%/year, so my 2013's battery cost would be 85% in 2014, x .85 is 72.25% in 2015, ... 32% in 2020! So MAYBE* Fiat was losing money in 2013, but maybe not overall.
  • PushEVs reports that with current battery cost, it actually costs less to make an EV than ICE.
  • While ga2500ev is waving his magic wand, maybe he can make every gas station, grocery chain, Starbucks, fast-food & box-store install minimum 75kW DC, in order to renew their annual business license. Maybe even make it free. Subsidize if needed with money taken from oil subsidies. Hey, he did say "magic"!
* If they were really losing money, why include luxuries IN THE FIRST MODEL YEAR, like:
  • Newly-designed, exclusive, staggered, aluminum wheels
  • Slightly-redesigned Abarth wing
  • New, exclusive airdam
  • 6-speaker stereo
  • Bluetooth speakerphone with voice-recognition
  • Auto climate control
  • Speed-sensitive wiper delay
  • Cruise control, remote entry (some base cars don't have those)
  • Acoustic windshield
  • Added sound-deadening
  • Double door seals
  • Slightly-redesigned mirror gaskets & housings
  • Auto-dimming rearview
  • Useless motor cover
  • Etc...
 

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As I've already stated, I would not put in 75kW DCFC in local places. Both installation and operating costs are too much to be effective. For commercial electricity, electrical demand charges are killer. They are base monthly prices tacked on based solely on the capability of an electrical circuit to deliver high power. It only takes one 15 minute use a month to trigger. And they are on the order of $9-10 per kW.

Georgia Power triggers these with circuits above 30 kW, with a $8.24/mo/kW charge for each kW of power that can be delivered over the base 30 kW. So for example a 75 kW charger would likely need a 100 kW circuit to power it. That 100 kW circuit will cost 70 kW * $8.24/kW = $576.80 base monthly cost if even one car plugs into that charger for the month. And that's before any other charge for the actual electricity. Any owner of such a charger would have no choice but to pass on that monthly cost onto the charger's customers. That's why folks like Electrify America charge $1 a minute to use their ultra high speed chargers.

The demand charges for a 30 kW circuit is $0/month. So putting in a 24 kW charger would have only the cost of electricity with no demand charges. So that's the medium speed DCFC that should be placed in all those places.

ga2500ev
 

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Discussion Starter #85
Great points, so no wand-drop yet: Use it to require use-based power fees, & while you're at it, require all their parking lots to be shaded with solar cells 😁
 

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I'm guessing nothing new has happened here. I wonder if they're running into technical problems or if it's just delayed because of the pandemic.
 
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