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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI people.
I’m curious about battery life of usedFiat 500e
Have some friends that bought this car with around 20 to 30k miles, and told me that the battery efficiency is starting to decline at a fast rate. As of today, the autonomy is around 20% lower and it keeps going down. Although it has a 10-year 100k mile warranty, one of them ask the price of a new battery and guess what, it cost “only” around $17.000!!!!! which means that you are basically fucked if the battery has any issues in 5 years.
To me It does not make sense to buy a $8.5k car that will last only 5 years.
don’t know if there are any other high voltage suppliers that can offer the battery at a reasonable price. It is just crazy the cost of that replacement.
Any thoughts?
 

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In North America, nearly all perceived "range loss", especially if it occurs quickly, is really just from the car's % gauge starting to read lower & lower than the actual level, at the low end. In other words, the gauge will show 0% but there's really still some range left, which will show on OBD. One user reported restoring about 20% more range by recalibrating the gauge:

Regain Lost Range for Free!

In Europe, sometimes 2 or 3 of the battery pack's 97 cells get "bricked" during storage/shipping/customs, etc, & those 2 or 3 cells need to be replaced if they can't be resurected somehow (apparently sometimes possible but I have no idea what the procedure is).
 

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Worst-case scenario even IF the battery does go bad it can actually still make sense financially to buy an $8.5k car that will only last 5 years:

In that time it saves $12,000* just in gas! That's not even counting oil changes, smog checks, air & oil filters, brakes, etc...

* at my current local gas prices with US-average driving distance & fuel economy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Worst-case scenario even IF the battery does go bad it can actually still make sense financially to buy an $8.5k car that will only last 5 years:

In that time it saves $12,000* just in gas! That's not even counting oil changes, smog checks, air & oil filters, brakes, etc...

* at my current local gas prices with US-average driving distance & fuel economy.
True!! But my question is why the battery is still so expensive?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
In North America, nearly all perceived "range loss", especially if it occurs quickly, is really just from the car's % gauge starting to read lower & lower than the actual level, at the low end. In other words, the gauge will show 0% but there's really still some range left, which will show on OBD. One user reported restoring about 20% more range by recalibrating the gauge:

Regain Lost Range for Free!

In Europe, sometimes 2 or 3 of the battery pack's 97 cells get "bricked" during storage/shipping/customs, etc, & those 2 or 3 cells need to be replaced if they can't be resurected somehow (apparently sometimes possible but I have no idea what the procedure is).
Many thanks!!!
 

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You can buy a $8,500 Abarth, have a lot more fun with it. Currently where I live, there isn’t a FCA dealership that will service a 500e. We have one Fiat studio left, they won’t look at one either. I like the fact, I can get into my 500, drive to the West coast in a day and half. Something you can’t do in a 500e. Fuel is still cheap here, in the Midwest. You still have to buy tires, cabin filters, 12 volt batteries, and have brake jobs, on a EV. That fact that the battery has a 8year warranty on it. There‘s is no place here to have it replaced!

If Fiat is still here in the country. They import the 2021 500e here. I’d be more in tune to lease one of them. I like the new platforms refinement, and driving range. In the city I live in. There are Tesla’s everywhere. Tesla backs there product even used. something Fiat doesn’t do. I see use 500e’s all over here, We do have a inter structurer, for EV’s here.
110046



110045
 

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rucallingmefiat; that is terrific.
Do you mind posting what your OBD is telling you your "Full AmpH capacity" is and what it reports for your SOH-C.
Thanks
 

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Sorry, but unfortunately, based on user reports at 500e battery module (Responses) it's unlikely that those numbers would mean much, if anything. For example:

User A:
AmpH 56.8 at 33,930 miles, increased to 64.9 at 34,047 miles. SOH-C also increased, from 87.45 to 99.61

User B:
AmpH 61.7 at 11,676 mi. Unbelievable 3.2% capacity loss in only 83 miles, to 59.6 at 11,759 even though SOH-C remained steady at 94.9

User C:
AmpH 57.7 at 13,552 increased to 64.9 at 13,827. SOH-C increased from 88.63 to 99.61


Also, an unbelievable 8% of the reports I checked show exactly 64.9 AmpH & over 16% show exactly 99.61 SOH-C.
 

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Sorry, but unfortunately, based on user reports at 500e battery module (Responses) it's unlikely that those numbers would mean much, if anything. For example:

User A:
AmpH 56.8 at 33,930 miles, increased to 64.9 at 34,047 miles. SOH-C also increased, from 87.45 to 99.61

User B:
AmpH 61.7 at 11,676 mi. Unbelievable 3.2% capacity loss in only 83 miles, to 59.6 at 11,759 even though SOH-C remained steady at 94.9

User C:
AmpH 57.7 at 13,552 increased to 64.9 at 13,827. SOH-C increased from 88.63 to 99.61


Also, an unbelievable 8% of the reports I checked show exactly 64.9 AmpH & over 16% show exactly 99.61 SOH-C.
A and C are both for before and shortly after U69. If I recall, user A reported that his AmpH values returned to the pre U69 values a short time later. I don't recall how many charge cycles it took. But clearly the U69 campaign resets the battery values and the car has to relearn what the actual capacity is. I suspect that some of the high mile cars showing 64.9 AmpH also recently had the U69 done prior to testing.

It has also been reported that driving aggressively can lower the AmpH value and driving conservatively can increase it. If you drive consistently, I think the AmpH value is probably a good indicator of what you can expect out of the battery.
 

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Okay, so kind of like the infamously-inaccurate "GOM" miles gauge, which is pretty close if you drive consistently enough.

It still seems highly unlikely to me that a whopping 16% of the reports coincidentally happened to be shortly after doing U69 (issued in 2018)
 

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I picked up a $8,500 2017 500E w/ 25k miles, after examining the battery situation pretty closely. From all of the anecdotal evidence I could find, the battery truly will last "the life of the car", as it states in the owner's manual. It appears that the on-board charger treats the battery quite gently, never getting too close to actual 100% or 0%, which is where nearly all of the capacity reduction wear occurs. In my case (retired, just use the car for around town errands), I'll probably have some other reason to replace it before the battery becomes an issue. However, incidents of these cars with reasonably high mileage (such as @rucallingmefiat, above) are very common.
~~
Mark Moulding
 

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I am the original owner of one of the first 500e's sold in the US. I used it daily on a hilly 35 mile commute, driving it at 70+ mph, and even though I could squeak out both directions (barely) on a single charge, I always charging it twice daily. I am currently at 94k miles. Battery degradation is real. It was rather slow until I reached about 70k miles, then it started dropping rather quickly. Now on the same 35 mile commute, starting with a full charge, I end up with about only 20% range remaining. Full charge when new would indicate about 90+ miles of available range, now a full charge shows about 60 miles available range. I wish the aftermarket existed for an affordable battery swap, as I really like the car, but as it currently stands, it is nearing the end of it's life due to limited range. Admitably, I drove the car HARD, daily, and charged frequently, all which accelerate battery degradation. But the cost of ownership over 8 years, especially considering the tax rebates I got which ending up putting the new purchase price at about $23000 new, have been well worth it. A plus is that I was able to use the HOV lanes for many years until my sticker expired. Luckily, I had a friend buy a new Tesla, and he gave me one of his current HOV stickers for my car so that I have been able to continue using the HOV lanes.
 

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I am the original owner of one of the first 500e's sold in the US. I used it daily on a hilly 35 mile commute, driving it at 70+ mph, and even though I could squeak out both directions (barely) on a single charge, I always charging it twice daily. I am currently at 94k miles. Battery degradation is real. It was rather slow until I reached about 70k miles, then it started dropping rather quickly. Now on the same 35 mile commute, starting with a full charge, I end up with about only 20% range remaining. Full charge when new would indicate about 90+ miles of available range, now a full charge shows about 60 miles available range. I wish the aftermarket existed for an affordable battery swap, as I really like the car, but as it currently stands, it is nearing the end of it's life due to limited range. Admitably, I drove the car HARD, daily, and charged frequently, all which accelerate battery degradation. But the cost of ownership over 8 years, especially considering the tax rebates I got which ending up putting the new purchase price at about $23000 new, have been well worth it. A plus is that I was able to use the HOV lanes for many years until my sticker expired. Luckily, I had a friend buy a new Tesla, and he gave me one of his current HOV stickers for my car so that I have been able to continue using the HOV lanes.
Have you considered buying a wrecked 500e and just swapping the whole pack? That's my plan if my battery degrades enough. Like here.
 

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Or have you considered resetting the car's % gauge?

We now know that over time/miles it reads lower & lower at the bottom end, with reportedly as much as 20% capacity left when the gauge says "0%".

I too have one of the very first 500e's sold, built July '13, right before sales started. I only have 26k miles but already my gauge shows 11% when there's really 18% left according to OBD:

(39) Regain Lost Range for Free! | Fiat 500 Forum (fiat500owners.com)
 

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I am the original owner of one of the first 500e's sold in the US. I used it daily on a hilly 35 mile commute, driving it at 70+ mph, and even though I could squeak out both directions (barely) on a single charge, I always charging it twice daily. I am currently at 94k miles. Battery degradation is real....
I owned a 2013 500e that was smashed by a drunk driver in 2018. I bought back the wreck cheap and pulled the battery pack (and other misc parts). The car started around 30k miles and I probably added another 10k in the 11 months of ownership. It was charged mostly at home with a 240v 7kW Juicebox and occasionally 120v. This spring I finally opened the pack and separated the battery modules.
I made a balancer cable and tested 3 of the 6s modules. Attached to a high quality Hyperion charger, each module charged to a top balance of 4.2v/cell and discharged until at least one cell was 3.0v using a couple amp rate. Here are the hard facts:
module A 52736mAh
module B 53876mAh
module C 53963mAh
Assuming a new capacity of 60Ah, each module is at 88%, 90%, 90% respectively.

Also, after sitting in the garage for almost a year and a half with no load, the cells were still at a healthy 3.8v.
 

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Thanks for the detailed report!

3.8v/cell after 1.5 years storage is great, since it means most of that time it was probably very close to the theoretically ideal storage voltage.

However your remaining capacity % numbers would be inaccurately low if you stopped discharging before it was as low as they went to get the factory 60Ah spec. Fiat's OBD shows low voltage warnings don't even activate until it drops below 2.7v/cell (& "alarm" only below 2.0v), but you stopped discharging at 3.0

Same goes if your "couple of amp" rate is higher than what was used to get the factory 60Ah spec. You get more Ah from any battery at lower amperage, & unfortunately there's no industry standard, so they may have used a much lower rate in order to "honestly" show what's really more of a "bragging rights" spec.
 

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2 amps is a tiny fraction of the C-rating. I couldn't find the rating specs for the Samsung SDI 60Ah cell, but I did for the 94Ah cell. They rate those based on 1/3C (31.3 A). If they use the same for the 60Ah cell, they would be rated at 20 A. Looks like they use 2.7 volts as the cutoff voltage and 4.12 volts as the peak for their cycle tests. Not sure what they use for the cutoff for the capacity rating.
110160
 

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Nice find!

Nearly all the specs are shown at 25C which is 77F & makes a HUGE difference to capacity but I'd guess Brucutus' tests were around that "room" temperature.

That lower-current test would give a higher capacity result than the OEM test, as would the higher 4.2v starting voltage. I see 4.15 on the chart.

However I don't see any test-end voltage spec. I do see a low of 2.0v, but that appears to be just the temporary result of drawing 77A for 30 seconds at MINUS 25C (13 BELOW ZERO Fahrenheit).
 
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