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Oh! 240V charging is more efficient, so the charging-power-used numbers above are likely giving a false impression of lower capacity, by comparison to the 25kWh EPA spec from a "normal AC source", & "the manufacturer's charger".
 

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Oh! 240V charging is more efficient, so the charging-power-used numbers above are likely giving a false impression of lower capacity, by comparison to the 25kWh EPA spec from a "normal AC source", & "the manufacturer's charger".
My juicebox shows the EVSE efficiency as 92%. Not sure what the efficiency of the onboard charger is. I did find this reference for what its worth: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Level_2_Electric_Vehicle_Charging_Efficiency
So for a full charge, it looks like level 2 would be around 3% more efficient.
So I think the degradation on his car is about what is expected. ~85% capacity at nearly 100k miles is pretty good - especially when it still meets your needs!
 

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Agreed, but the EVSE may make less difference than the onboard charger, which is very inefficient.

Its wasted energy makes it so hot after a few minutes of L2 that I can barely touch it even though it's water-cooled!

On L1 it's not as hot, but it's pretty warm, & for five times as long as on L2.
 

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I’m totally confused now. Yes the car is in ready mode. It has gone through a soft reboot of the main battery still won’t charge.

So you’re saying that the fact that the car is in “ready” mode the contactors are working fine?
If they are working then I have to assume the tech did in fact run the alfaobd software and my problem is not the software but something else like the PIM?
Do they try to charge the car while the car is in ready mode I know for a fact that even if you have a charge timer if the ignition switched on ready if you plug the car and it will charge bypassing the timer, etc.
 

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This is the first time I've seen it, but after around 89,000 miles the @Hmbfiat OnBoard Charger failed:

...despite the 1900 part it was worth it the repair was less than oil changes would have been on the ice 500 over the 6 yrs I’ve had the car.

As you get up in miles the on board charger,or OBCM is prone to fail. Keeping it as cool as possible charging may be the answer...
Please note the error at the beginning of the full post (click here) where it says "power inverter was blown", when in fact it was the OBC.
 

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Sorry I came across that way, it was not intended to berate. Yes your thread got detailed by a few of us, not intentionally, for that I appologize.

I was just scratching my head at what you were expecting for higher miles for a 500e when I posted about one that is genuinely high miles for age.

It is just way too early in life cycle to be trying to establish "high miles" for EV's in general as compared to ICE. Mainstream EV are around 10yrs old max? 15k/yr, would be 150k ish total. Like you I think that is to low to be considered high mileage. Give them another 5-10yr and we will be in better position to evaluate longevity. That said there are more and more posts starting to pop up with Tesla's in the 200k+ range and I thought one over 400? Our little 500e will have a very tough time getting to those sort of distances anytime soon.

I didn't think there were other factory ev shorter range than 500e? I thought even the leaf was higher?

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Actually what blows my mind is the Nissan leaf is a low range vehicle kind of like ours with a very low 80 something miles per charge but I have seen tons of those things were well over 150,000 miles. Despite the battery degradation which everyone is concerned about on those cars they somehow managed to make it was really high miles reliably.
 

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The Leaf became available more than 11 years ago, so 150,000 miles on an early model would still be only 36 miles per day, & if that's your commute, an original range of 80-something could have degraded to less than HALF & still make it.
The Fiat e came out in 2013 the Leaf 2011 they only have a 2 year head start. I haven’t seen a single 500e with 150k but I’ve seen so many leafs for sale with 100-120-150k+ like it’s like a normal gas car.
 

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...blows my mind... I’ve seen so many leafs for sale with 100-120-150k+
I just meant that to ME it doesn't seem all that "mind blowing", based on the sales numbers I saw at insideEVs.com:

- Apparently Nissan sold 3,875 Leafs 2 full years before the first 500e. They sold 12,822 1 full year before the 1st 500e. A total of 29,332 Leafs sold before there was even one mile on the first 500e.

Also, it's a good reality-check for all the people who think they need 200 mile range:

- Even though they degrade MUCH faster than a 500e, a 1st-gen Leaf would still be driving the US avg commute at full speed* with only 44% of its original 73mi range. Same goes for a 500e, except it's likely to take 240,000 miles to reach that level.


* As range decreases beyond that, simply driving slower would still make it, or stop for a few minutes at one of the rapidly-growing number of public chargers.
 

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I just meant that to ME it doesn't seem all that "mind blowing", based on the sales numbers I saw at insideEVs.com:

- Apparently Nissan sold 3,875 Leafs 2 full years before the first 500e. They sold 12,822 1 full year before the 1st 500e. A total of 29,332 Leafs sold before there was even one mile on the first 500e.

Also, it's a good reality-check for all the people who think they need 200 mile range:

- Even though they degrade MUCH faster than a 500e, a 1st-gen Leaf would still be driving the US avg commute at full speed* with only 44% of its original 73mi range. Same goes for a 500e, except it's likely to take 240,000 miles to reach that level.


* As range decreases beyond that, simply driving slower would still make it, or stop for a few minutes at one of the rapidly-growing number of public chargers.
I am pretty sure part of the reason they have higher miles is because they have access to chademo fast charging which significantly improves the usage and practicality. I’d probably venture out farther if I don’t have to wait 3-4hrs each leg of the trip tied to a level 2
 

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Not sure 150,000 is a good bench mark for "high" mileage for a 500e. The short range, even when new, makes that near impossible in the 8 years the car has been sold. I've got 80,000 and think that is 'high' for the car, especially as the range is now about 55 miles per charge, not the original 85.
80,000 miles in 8 years is considered Low Mileage in a ICE car. But high use in a 500e. Most of us are driving a lot less than 200 miles a week.
 

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80,000 miles in 8 years is considered Low Mileage in a ICE car. But high use in a 500e. Most of us are driving a lot less than 200 miles a week.
My used 2017 has 62k now and I drive almost 650 miles a week avg /2500 a month. I’d have 70k if it weren’t for covid lock downs and unemployment for a long while. I will be at 100k sometime next year probably. The way I look at it the price paid for this car which was $8k more then paid itself in gas and maintenance savings by the time I reach 100k so I don’t care what happens after that it’s all free driving.
 

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Here is my simple math at this, my 2015 Golf would eat $100 of gas every week @650 miles a week on a 37mpg~ car that’s $400 a month in just fuel, x12 that’s $4800 at todays prices without any maintenance added. My Fiat cost me $1.50~ in electric bill per day at home since 50% of the charge happens at work where it’s free which equals about $432 out of pocket in “fuel” cost a year. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the savings, I’m hoping she’ll stay together till 150k miles where I will shop for a new EV.
 

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I did a quick math and I saved $9,300 in gas over the the last 70K miles (30mgp @ $4/gal). Spent approximately $3500 in charging fee based on 4 miles/kwh @ $0.20/kw in charging fee. So I've saved about $5800 total which is almost as much as what I paid for the car. I'm not including maintenance cost in the comparison, but I spent zero on maintenance so far on the 500e. The only thing I've bought so far are new tires. So over all I can comfortably say that the 500e paid for itself.
 

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I did a quick math and I saved $9,300 in gas over the the last 70K miles (30mgp @ $4/gal). Spent approximately $3500 in charging fee based on 4 miles/kwh @ $0.20/kw in charging fee. So I've saved about $5800 total which is almost as much as what I paid for the car. I'm not including maintenance cost in the comparison, but I spent zero on maintenance so far on the 500e. The only thing I've bought so far are new tires. So over all I can comfortably say that the 500e paid for itself.
My only fear in the future is utility companies will be bought out by former oil companies and I’ll just hike up the electric rates to compensate for the losses I see that happening. Once everyone goes electric I can see electric rates being something crazy like a dollar a kilowatt or more. The main differentiators you can make your own electricity to offset the cost but you can’t make your own oil and gas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
My only fear in the future is utility companies will be bought out by former oil companies and I’ll just hike up the electric rates to compensate for the losses I see that happening. Once everyone goes electric I can see electric rates being something crazy like a dollar a kilowatt or more. The main differentiators you can make your own electricity to offset the cost but you can’t make your own oil and gas.
That’s unlikely because even if every car is electric it still won’t represent the majority of electricity used on the grid, unlike gas which is 100% used for vehicles.
 

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That’s unlikely because even if every car is electric it still won’t represent the majority of electricity used on the grid, unlike gas which is 100% used for vehicles.
Yes but when energy demand rises they have the authority to raise prices, kinda like what happened to Texas during the storm, I surmise huge numbers of EV will raise demands.
 

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The price of solar AND of battery storage keeps going down, so more & more people keep adding solar/battery, so demand might not go up very much.

As for high miles, even with no fast charging, @twinturboz is on track to have 150k miles when the car is about 8 years old.

Right now there are 49,000 Leafs in the US that are 8 years or older, so high mile examples should be more common.

There are only 4,000 500Es over 8 years old, which may be why it's hard to find any with very high miles.

But we do have:
@RNDDUDE with I think over 95k (wish he'd report the OBD range)
@rucallingmefiat with 100k now
@Hmbfiat (I think) with 90k
 

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California Socal Edison running a government backed program for battery back up and solar rebate I might look into it. Supposedly they pay for more then half the cost which sounds tempting.
 
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