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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I took mine to the dealer in Arlington TX for an A/C issue (leaky compressor). One of the service people told me that Fiat really doesn't want to honor their battery warranties on these cars. He said it takes four to six months of bitching at Fiat before they will finally do something. He showed me several cars on the lot that they had bought back, most for much more than the customers paid for their cars. Clearly that is the cheaper way out for Fiat. He also said, that they had replaced several batteries on cars whose owners refused several buy back offers as they wanted their cars fixed. I don't know but, perhaps you'd have better luck with that dealer as they've successfully gotten Fiat to honor their warranties for their customers in the past.
Saying you did something wrong sounds like nonsense. I would ask what evidence they had that you didn't care for you car according to the owners manual. Good luck man.
that's what pisses me off, FIAT didn't even offer a buy back. They just keep rejecting the case without much explanation and there's no one I can talk to. I might visit the Arlington dealership as it seems like they're more successful in dealing with Fiat
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
@Marcello when you charge the car, how long does it take to go from 0% to 100% - does it seem like it is charging normally?
@Kiesling dealership said it takes only about 5 miles for the car to get completely discharged. they still have the car and I haven't been able to get to it yet. from what they told me everything seems to be fine when charging, only for the car to completely discharge in just a few miles
 

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@Kiesling dealership said it takes only about 5 miles for the car to get completely discharged. they still have the car and I haven't been able to get to it yet. from what they told me everything seems to be fine when charging, only for the car to completely discharge in just a few miles
That makes no sense to me. Proper chargers monitor the charge current and knowing the charge voltage and charge current you can calculate the charge watts. Charge watts times charge time gives you the exact kWh put into the battery. While the charge current will change as the battery charges, modern charges take continuous measurements of charge power while charging and when done can tell you exactly how many kWh the battery accepted. If you drive 5 miles at 60 mph, that is five minutes. These are about 360 Volt batteries with about 24 kWh of power so, that's about 66.7 amps for an hour. To discharge that battery in five minutes, you must draw 800 Amps out of the battery! Where could that much current possibly be going without melting the car down?
That tells me that everything cannot be "fine" when charging. Typically you get most of what you put in, back out so...
If the battery is "really" taking a normal charge then something else is taking all the power out really fast, so not a battery problem. Or, something is dissipating a large part of the charge current making the charger think the battery is charged when in reality it is not. If that were the case however, the charger would never think that the batteries were full and would charge forever. Also, if there is something pulling power while charging, once disconnected from the charger, the battery should discharge overnight.
If possible, I would charge the battery up, pull the disconnect and let it sit overnight. If the battery pack is charging normally, it should still be hot the next day. If it is, something in the car is pulling the juice out. If the battery is dead the next day, something in the battery pack really is messed-up.
 

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Hello all!
I'm in desperate need of help. I own a 2016 500e with about 38k miles on it. driving perfectly.
left it at home for about 2.5 weeks as i left town for a vacation, unplugged as i don't have an indoor place where to park it.
came back, car was completely dead. towed it to the dealership, they replaced the 12 battery but main HV battery wouldn't hold charge. ran all types of diagnostics and result was that HV battery needs to be replaced.
FIAT is denying all requests to replace the battery under warranty as it was our negligence.
now, i understand electric vehicles have different requirements, but how in **** is it normal that a car dies completely after only 2.5 weeks and it costs 18k to make it drivable again?
I'm in so much disbelief it is difficult to think.
any suggestions?

thank you in advance
If you can't get the dealer to replace the battery, check with hybrid911.com to see if they can rebuild that kind of battery.
 

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More good ideas added above, but my first steps would still be to check for OBD error codes, & at LOW charge compare OBD SOC % to the car's gauge, & check the Max/Min Status voltages. Then time how long it takes to fully charge, & check SOC% & Max/Min again.

Just to confirm, you are not sure if the U69 was done on your car correct?
@royceda please correct me if I'm wrong, but "U69 Campaign shows completed" seems as sure as can be that it was done.
 

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Yes?, it shown as complete on the FCA site it's shown as completed, but when I pull a vehicle history report it show that it was not? I purchased the 500e after the U69 was supposedly done,
 

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Yes?, it shown as complete on the FCA site it's shown as completed, but when I pull a vehicle history report it show that it was not? I purchased the 500e after the U69 was supposedly done,
Hmmm. So when you plug in your VIN into this site: Lookup FCA Vehicle Recalls by VIN | Official Mopar® Site it tells you the U69 was complete, but the history report (carfax or something similar) says it wasn't? That is really frustrating! Not sure what to think. What happened to your car sounds like it wasn't done, but I haven't heard of any other cases where a 500e has sat for so long (perhaps something completely different happened??). I know that some of the cars that were shipped to Europe had dead HV batteries on arrival and had to be disassembled and have each cell charged individually - but I think those cars did not have the U69 campaign done.
 

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It is really frustrating, haven't seen my car since 8/20/2021 and zero feedback the the dealer, but my case has advanced to a higher level with FCA?
 

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I have a similar and ongoing tale of woe involving a 2013 that, at the time of identified failure, was within 17 days of the end of the warranty... I'll type out the saga and share. Short explanation is they are throwing stuff on the wall and seeing what sticks. "Customer Neglect". "Accident caused it".

Customer Care is playing "Good Cop" and they are painting Star Engineering / Dealership as "Bad Cop".

"We believe you and we think it should be covered too based on what you are telling us but we can't override Engineering-- and we can't put you through to them because we can't access them ourselves."

Dealership is telling me thgat can't do anything and for me to "Sue Fiat"

Everyone makes it sound so free and easy to sue... If there's an attorney out there who wants to sue under the promise they'll get paid when they win the case, I'll gladly take part.

D-day for warranty expiration is Oct 14th...

Oh, and my car had not received the U69 update prior to the failure to drive and failure to charge/goalposts. And while the battery was telling me 0% it now says 46% and still wont drive or charge.

I'm taking it to another dealership for a second opinion and to restart a new STAR claim. Sounds to me like I need to have an open claim in order to have a leg to stand on and the previous ticket was closed out and I stupidly picked up the car when the "kind" Customer Care person told me I should pick up the car and think about taking it to another dealer.
 

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@Spank 46% or 47%? I seem to recall 47% is the value displayed when the HV battery kills itself if the U69 hasn't been done. It is a known bug. If you do a search you should be able to find more information. As I posted above, there are some shops in Europe that would take the pack apart to charge each individual cell to bring it back to life to save cars that died during transport. I haven't heard of any shops in the US that provide this service.
 

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Hmm, maybe I'm just lucky...
When I started my bottom cover work, it was August 24. The battery was at 95% charge. I unplugged the car at the time & put it up on jack stands.
Long story short, I just finished the job and read this thread. OMG!!! I might have killed the battery, and the dealer would definitely not want to warranty my highly modded car.
So I checked it and found the battery to be at 70% charge almost 7 weeks later.
I've disabled a couple systems that might drain the 12V battery, and have replaced the 12V battery with a lithium battery.
During my test drive I got the "service propulsion system" error, but otherwise, the car charged and performed normally.
 

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Some details would be nice, like if you know what caused the warning, & if it went away on it's own or by something you did.

More importantly, please confirm that the self-disconnected* HV battery lost 25% in only 7 weeks!!! :oops:
I suppose you would have mentioned if you compared to OBD, &/or timed the recharge, to see if it was just the % gauge acting up.

*assuming your U69 "campaign" was done.
 

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Some details would be nice, like if you know what caused the warning, & if it went away on it's own or by something you did.

More importantly, please confirm that the self-disconnected* HV battery lost 25% in only 7 weeks!!! :oops:
I suppose you would have mentioned if you compared to OBD, &/or timed the recharge, to see if it was just the % gauge acting up.

*assuming your U69 "campaign" was done.
The SPS error did not go away on its own; I'm in the middle of a "disconnect 12V battery reboot" - I'll post how that worked out soon.
Yes, it was (and I'm slightly embarrassed by this) 7 weeks disconnected from a charger and on jack stands. Fortunately I have a patient wife and another car...
Perhaps this is a point of confusion - I did not disconnect the HV battery. I merely did not have it connected to a charger. I also left the 12V battery and everything else connected.
I took a photo of the instrument cluster w/ the battery @ 95% charge when I started, mostly to confirm the increase in the GOM's range.
Then, later, when this thread came up, I took a photo of the instrument cluster again. Surprisingly, it was @ 70%. Given other folks experiences with discharging over a couple weeks, I'm pretty happy about 25% over 7 weeks. During that time, I opened the doors frequently, and the car "woke up" every time - I'm sure that chips away at the charge state a bit.

I plugged it in and charged it using the charger supplied w/ the car. It's the charger we use @ home. Normally a full charge w/ the battery @ 20% takes all night. This time it was done in a few hours, which seemed reasonable. Sorry, I didn't get OBD data of the charge state.

Regarding things that might be an influence, a 12V lead acid battery actually requires quite a bit of "maintenance charge" just to keep alive. For example, one of the problems I had to deal w/ was our tractor battery is constantly dying; I can guarantee there are absolutely no parasitic circuits on that tractor, yet the battery's charge goes down enough that the tractor won't start after a month or two sitting. In this case, the recommended fix so one isn't constantly replacing batteries on limited use vehicles is to get a maintenance/trickle charger. My guess is the car's charger does this, powered by the HV battery pack.

My car has a LiFePo4 battery and a minimum BMS for that battery. My guess is one factor might be a battery/bms that doesn't require a maintenance charge.
Another factor might be various parasitic circuits that don't turn off when the car is parked. If anyone has any info about "always active" circuits, I'd love to hear it. I have no problem unplugging fuses of "features" I don't use.
 

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Thanks for the details but I still wonder about U69. (you can click here to check)

When parked unplugged, my HV disconnects itself by keeping the contactors open. Prior to U69 it would supposedly reconnect itself if needed to recharge the 12V since ALL the parasitic loads are on it, NOT the HV.

That's why I'm shocked at more than 1/2% loss per month (Samsung SDI self-discharge spec), unless there's a significant temperature drop, because that drops voltage, but it bounces back if the temperature returns.

Charging from 70% to 100 takes about 6 hours. If it takes much less than that then it might not have really down to 70%, & was maybe just something like a temperature drop or the gauge acting up.

While parked unplugged if I open my left door the HV reconnects for several seconds during which OBD shows 12.x instead of 14.x volts, so it's NOT charging the 12V at that time. The latter voltage drops when the contactors connect, & drops even more if the brake pump activates, so they also both seem to be powered by the 12V.

I think the only way to guarantee no parasitic drain is to disconnect. For example I disconnected my ex-boss' gas Audi's lead-acid 12V when he was gone 6 months every year, & every time I reconnected it started fine. By my measurements, 500e parasitic load is only about 0.022A with the alarm armed, or 0.016A with the alarm disarmed by locking it with the metal key, & I haven't done the math on how many years that would take to drain the HV, but U69 seems to prevent that anyway, since my HV never self-connected to recharge the 12V even when it dropped to 0%.

* I timed the drop from 100% to 10% & 20% with tiny 3Ah & 6Ah starter batteries.
 

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I just checked my U69 and others @ Mopar.
I'm very out of compliance...
S26 - reprogramming the PIM
P23 - new PIM
U69 - can't link ???
S93 - vent plugs

What does the U69 update do? It won't link @ the Mopar site.
I'm a bit from the "aint broke don't fix it" philosophy, although modding stuff is a lot of fixin'... Regarding the P23, I haven't had any issues w/ the PIM, and unless the coolant leak is due to corrosion or something like that, I probably won't have the leak problem.
To be honest, I'm a bit spooked about getting a new PIM (P23) which will probably have the S26 and U69 updates. (that would be good...) Just worried due to people's mediocre experiences with the PIM misbehaving after replacement. My nearest studio is in Sacramento, which will require towing and a day's work if it all goes well. If it takes longer - stay in a Hotel in Sacramento??
Also, I'm concerned that they may refuse to do anything when they see all the mods.

Ideas?
 

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I appreciate your reluctance with taking your 500e to the dealer for support, as I'm going through a waiting game regarding the HV battery for my 500e since 8/11/2021. My dealer is closer than yours, but unresponsive, so I have no clear answer to what's going on!

Good luck to you.
 

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What does the U69 update do?
U69 is an update that protects the high voltage battery from a dead 12V battery that won't take a charge. Prior to that update, an unplugged 500e would wake up at intervals, check the 12V battery to see if it needed to be charged, then apply charging power to the 12V battery. But since the battery is dead, all it ends up doing is draining the HV battery to the point where it too dies.

U69 adds a cutoff to the HV battery such that even if the 12V is dead, the system won't try to recharge it, thus protecting the HV battery from damage.

I've been riding the edge as I haven't had it done yet. But I charge my 500e virtually every day, and the EVSE will attempt to charge the 12V battery as it charges the HV battery in my case. I expect that when the 12V dies, that the car simply won't start as opposed to trying to drain the HV battery.

I believe you said you left the vehicle uncharged for 7 weeks. That's the kind of timeframe that could cause the damage that U69 is designed to prevent.

ga2500ev
 

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royceda: Sorry to hear about your situation. It's exactly what I want to avoid. Did you get a loaner? Any other thing that might put a fire under their .?
I was wrong about the closest studio being in Sacramento - believe it or not there is no studio in Sacramento! My only other options are Redding ( not exactly an EV hub ) or Santa Rosa in the Bay Area. If I have to do this, I'm more inclined to take it to the Bay Area.
ga2500ev: Thank you for the explanation. I guess the good thing is batteries fail slowly. If you're paying attention, it's possible to detect the slow motion failure. When I first tried lithium batteries for the 12V battery, I tried the cheapest one I could find. Mediocre cells and no BMS. In retrospect that wasn't too smart; two of the four cells failed - they didn't take a charge. Fortunately I was watching it's performance pretty closely.
 

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No loaner car, but I've got access to my wifes car sometimes. I've been in contact with a FCA representaive who is trying to get the service manager at the dealer to communicate, but that's not working. The FCA person actually contacted me initally through the forum, so FCA is monitoring this forum.
 
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