I just bought a 2015 500e and the battery is dropping really fast despite reporting high mi/kwh

952 Views 33 Replies 4 Participants Last post by eranr, 11 d ago

eranr

Discussion Starter · 24 d ago (Edited)

Hi All! I just bought a 2015 500e with 49700 miles over the weekend and really love it. It joins the EV6 as our 2 cars are finally both EV.

After driving around town today, I'm wondering if I have a problem. I drive 3 legs 1) 4.4 miles @ 6.2 mi/kwh, 2) 3.2 miles @ 5.0 mi/kwh, and 3) 6.2 miles @ 4.7 mi/kwh. Numbers reported by the dash sound great, and I drove with no a/c and very careful to see how efficient I could be. However the battery % dropped from 47 to 22 over this drive. How's that possible? The numbers don't add up...

In theory I used 2.7 kwh, which is ~12% of the ~22.4 kwh that we have available, but the battery % dropped 25%.

I've read the forum quite a bit, and I still can't tell if it is the battery % reporting that is incorrect, or if the battery is actually losing more charge than the measured charge usage in the mi/kwh the dash shows after a drive. Is this the calibration error I have read so much about or is did I get sold a car with a bad battery?

Based on the reported 25% battery drop, I can drive only 55 miles in town under prefect conditions while my car reports I'm getting ~5mi/kwh. That's not exactly acceptable to me. Thanks in advance for any help!

Oh, and the guessometer showed 52 miles when I started, 52 miles after leg 1, ~42 miles after leg 2, and 25 miles when I got back home. The guessometer seems to be calculated using the my high mi/kwh but adjusts its value based on the battery %.

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Dylan

· #2 · 24 d ago

eranr said:
Hi All! I just bought a 2015 500e with 49700 miles over the weekend and really love it. It joins the EV6 as our 2 cars are finally both EV.

After driving around town today, I'm wondering if I have a problem. I drive 3 legs 1) 4.4 miles @ 6.2 mi/kwh, 2) 3.2 miles @ 5.0 mi/kwh, and 3) 6.2 miles @ 4.7 mi/kwh. Numbers reported by the dash sound great, and I drove with no a/c and very careful to see how efficient I could be. However the battery % dropped from 47 to 22 over this drive. How's that possible? The numbers don't add up...

In theory I used 2.7 kwh, which is ~12% of the ~22.4 kwh that we have available, but the battery % dropped 25%.

I've read the forum quite a bit, and I still can't tell if it is the battery % reporting that is incorrect, or if the battery is actually losing more charge than the measured charge usage in the mi/kwh the dash shows after a drive. Is this the calibration error I have read so much about or is did I get sold a car with a bad battery?

Based on the reported 25% battery drop, I can drive only 55 miles in town under prefect conditions while my car reports I'm getting ~5mi/kwh. That's not exactly acceptable to me. Thanks in advance for any help!

Oh, and the guessometer showed 52 miles when I started, 52 miles after leg 1, ~42 miles after leg 2, and 25 miles when I got back home. The guessometer seems to be calculated using the my high mi/kwh but adjusts its value based on the battery %.

It could be either battery degradation (you do have almost 50,000 miles) or the gauge is off which can certainly be the case. Also a combination of both is totally possible. Either way, I would suggest to follow the steps at the link I posted to try and see if you can regain some range back before trying anything else. The steps below even helped myself to gain some range back even though my battery never had any problems. The Fiat 500e is certainly a great vehicle. I’m at 63,000 miles and still get 90 miles of range so the battery does hold up well, definitely try the steps in the link I posted and see if it can help. It just might! Regain Lost Range for Free!

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Electric Tire Shredder

· #3 · 23 d ago

Degradation at 50k miles would typically only account for about half of that discrepancy.

eranr said:
I've read the forum quite a bit, and I still can't tell if it is the battery % reporting that is incorrect...

You may have read that in order to keep the car running you should have the free AlfaOBD app* & a $50 OBDLink SX cable**. With those you can also check for weak battery cells, & see if the car's % gauge is reading low, in order to use "Option #1" in post #2 at Regain Lost Range for Free!

eranr said:
guessometer showed...

The GOM is literally not even worth mentioning. It's based on driving conditions remaining exactly the exact same, all the way until the battery is dead, which is virtually impossible, due to unavoidable changes in ambient temperature, traffic, hills, wind, etc.

Electric Tire Shredder

· #4 · 23 d ago

*$49 lifetime membership AlfaOBD is nearly never required, unless you get one of these fairly rare but unpreventable glitches:

Contactor glitch that prevents starting
Flashing odometer than can cause stalling

** The cable works if your app is on a device with USB. That includes an Android with USB-C, & a USB-A-to-C adapter. If your device doesn't have USB, then an OBDLink LX Bluetooth is recommended. A $17 eBay Konnwei KW902 or Veepeak will work for now, & even for the contactor glitch, but they won't prevent stalling if you ever get a flashing odometer.

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Electric Tire Shredder

· #5 · 23 d ago

eranr said:
I drove with no a/c and very careful to see how efficient I could be.

If the humidity sensor isn't left unplugged, it can run the power robbing compressor without even lighting the A/C button.

It can also cause a huge range of errors, including regen failure, & not all errors vanish when you unplug it, so make sure that when you lift the accelerator at over 7mph there's a small blue light at the lower right of the speedo, & a larger blue light when you press the brake pedal.

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eranr

Discussion Starter · #6 · 23 d ago

Electric Tire Shredder said:
*$49 lifetime membership AlfaOBD is nearly never required, unless you get one of these fairly rare but unpreventable glitches:

Contactor glitch that prevents starting

Flashing odometer than can cause stalling

** The cable works if your app is on a device with USB. That includes an Android with USB-C, & a USB-A-to-C adapter. If your device doesn't have USB, then an OBDLink LX Bluetooth is recommended. A $17 eBay Konnwei KW902 or Veepeak will work for now, & even for the contactor glitch, but they won't prevent stalling if you ever get a flashing odometer.

I've studied all your posts both before and after my purchase! Thank you for everything! Having a knowledgeable person willing to share that much info and help solve problems is what made me comfortable with the Fiat 500e to begin with.

I did already purchased the obdlink sx cable last night on Amazon. When I was looking for a 500e, I asked every dealer/ seller if I could do use an obd scanner to check the battery before purchase and they all said no... I think I know why. They want to remain ignorant, but cite the risk of potential damage from improper use of an obd scanner as the reason.

Reactions: 1

Electric Tire Shredder

· #7 · 23 d ago

In the sellers' defense, any attempt to use an OBD reader with its own screen can mess up the car. I wonder if I could work that warning into one or more of my "how-to" lists.

Even the correct equipment can mess it up, if used improperly. For example you could deactivate the contactors & then the car won't start or charge.

Back to the car in question, please confirm that you've left the humidity sensor disconnected, & the large & small blue lights both show.

Also keep in mind that in order to start the car after a contactor glitch, your AlfaOBD app's device needs to be kept charged up, in the car. After you get it connected you can check for a low cell, & also please compare the % readings, & report those on this thread.

eranr

Discussion Starter · #8 · 21 d ago

Electric Tire Shredder said:
In the sellers' defense, any attempt to use an OBD reader with its own screen can mess up the car. I wonder if I could work that warning into one or more of my "how-to" lists.

Even the correct equipment can mess it up, if used improperly. For example you could deactivate the contactors & then the car won't start or charge.

Back to the car in question, please confirm that you've left the humidity sensor disconnected, & the large & small blue lights both show.

Also keep in mind that in order to start the car after a contactor glitch, your AlfaOBD app's device needs to be kept charged up, in the car. After you get it connected you can check for a low cell, & also please compare the % readings, & report those on this thread.

I unplugged the humidity sensor, but unfortunately the OBDLink SX I ordered Thursday night (and was supposed to be delivered Friday) got delayed by Amazon and still hasn't been delivered

. I leave town for work for a week tomorrow morning, so I will have to wait till Friday to continue the troubleshooting.

I do have another data point that hopefully can help point to either bad battery cells or calibration issue. I installed one the aftermarket android stereos (Witson from Aliexpress) and backup camera. It is pretty awesome and I got everything working (eventually), but while testing all the devices the battery dropped from 100% down to 88% quite fast with no driving (other than an occasional reversing in the driveway to test the reverse camera. Running a stereo for maybe 30 min at most can't possibly use (12%*22.4) 2.7 kwh. I watched the battery % go down 1% every 2-3 minutes while playing with the settings on the android device. That's more dropping than while actually driving. Feel free to let me know if that is indicative of anything. The one caveat is that I did not have the humidity sensor unplugged yet as I actually did all that last Thursday before I got the responses.

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Electric Tire Shredder

· #9 · 21 d ago

Based on that new data point, I now recommend getting a "Yellow Adapter". Click here.

eranr

Discussion Starter · #10 · 21 d ago

Electric Tire Shredder said:
Based on that new data point, I now recommend getting a "Yellow Adapter". Click here.

The yellow adapter is only required for proxy alignment in the case of the blinking odometer, right? I don't have the blinking odometer, but is the concern that if I get it the blinking odometer then I am at higher risk of a sudden jump to zero and the car failing? In which case, I would need the yellow adapter on hand to get the car fixed.

After more reading, perhaps my Grizzl-E L2 charger may not actually be charging the car to 100%.

Electric Tire Shredder

· #11 · 21 d ago

Sound system work can cause a proxy misalignment. That's usually accompanied by a flashing odometer, but maybe not always. It can also get misaligned on its own, & when mine did that I found that the Body Computer had eleven error codes!

I'm not positive whether it was the misalignment itself, or one or more of those errors that messed up my % gauge, but either way you need a Yellow Adapter even just to check. It can make the gauge drop suddenly/rapidly. Earlier today I described that on another post here:

www.fiat500owners.com

HOW TO FIX A "DEAD" 500E that suddenly...

When a 500e dies, it's almost always just the starter battery. If you’re stranded, it sometimes works to turn off the headlights, wipers, & dome lights, leave the hatch & right door closed & the left door latched only 1 click (to avoid “wake-up” signal), wait about 15 minutes for the starter...

www.fiat500owners.com

www.fiat500owners.com

Electric Tire Shredder

· #12 · 21 d ago

eranr said:
is the concern that if I get it the blinking odometer then I am at higher risk of a sudden jump to zero and the car failing?

Yes.

Electric Tire Shredder

· #13 · 21 d ago

...& you may already have either a "flash-less" proxy misalignment &/or the same error code(s) that messed up my % gauge & that of at least 2 other users who also reported that.

Here's the code clearing & alignment procedure:

Font Screenshot Red Software Parallel

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Electric Tire Shredder

· #14 · 21 d ago (Edited)

eranr said:
my Grizzl-E L2 charger may not actually be charging the car to 100%.

It's very easy to check. Just charge overnight, unplug it in the morning, plug back in & see if it goes to 100. Check for the balancing sound (click here).

Thanks for reminding me that it can be at least part of the problem, since it allows the cells to become imbalanced, with 1 or more cells much lower than the highest cells just because they're not being fully charged.

The prior owner may have avoided full charge intentionally or accidentally, eventually creating a large imbalance which makes the OBD % drop in bigger steps. I'm not positive if the car's own gauge also does this, but here's how OBD calculates "Current SOC %".

At high SOC it goes by only the very highest cell, ignoring all the rest.
When it gets to a medium high level, it suddenly drops to halfway between the highest cell & the overall average.
When it gets to a medium level it suddenly drops to just the oberall avg.
At medium-low it suddenly drops to halfway between the avg. & the very lowest cell.
At low levels it suddenly drops to just the very lowest cell's %, ignoring all the others.

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MondoMojo

· #15 · 18 d ago

Electric Tire Shredder said:
It's very easy to check. Just charge overnight, unplug it in the morning, plug back in & see if it goes to 100. Check for the balancing sound (click here).

Thanks for reminding me that it can be at least part of the problem, since it allows the cells to become imbalanced, with 1 or more cells much lower than the highest cells just because they're not being fully charged.

The prior owner may have avoided full charge intentionally or accidentally, eventually creating a large imbalance which makes the OBD % drop in bigger steps. I'm not positive if the car's own gauge also does this, but here's how OBD calculates "Current SOC %".

At high SOC it goes by only the very highest cell, ignoring all the rest.

When it gets to a medium high level, it suddenly drops to halfway between the highest cell & the overall average.

When it gets to a medium level it suddenly drops to just the oberall avg.

At medium-low it suddenly drops to halfway between the avg. & the very lowest cell.

At low levels it suddenly drops to just the very lowest cell's %, ignoring all the others.

I find my estimates are much more accurate if allow a cell balance once a month. YMMV!

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Electric Tire Shredder

· #16 · 18 d ago

Ya, that's why I said make sure it goes to 100% to perform the balance cycle. In fact, if imbalance is big it may take 2 or more cycles to 100% in order to even them out.

The more imbalance, the more OBD "current SOC" will jump down at each recalculation point during discharge.

eranr

Discussion Starter · #17 · 16 d ago

Finally back in town and had a chance to check what is going on with my 2015 500e using an OBDLink SX and my aftermarket Witson android stereo with demo AlphaOBD. First off, using the Witson android app was awesome. I had my phone free to look at instructions and had a nice large screen to see everything. It was also really easy to export the logs using Nearby Share to my phone.

Here are my findings although please advise if I should check for more.

1) It looks like I have a bad cell or module - or a heavily imbalanced cell/module. This bad module (cells 92 - 97) had both the Max (4019 mV) and Min voltage (4004 mV) while the lowest voltage on any other module was 4013 mV. Cells 92 - 97 had the four lowest voltages at cell 92: 4004, cell 95: 4011, cell 96: 4011 and cell 97: 4010. I am not sure if 92 - 97 are all on one module, but sounds like it could be one 6 cell module.

2) The SOC in OBD seems right. Dash was reporting 76% while OBD showed max 78.04, Avg 77.65, and Min 75.69

3) I had 5 BCM faults: U0019, U1190, B2204, B1A25, B11FA. It seems like at least two of them were because I unplugged the humidity sensor, but have no idea what the others meant. One explicitly said humidity sensor not detected. A second also said something about humidity sensor. I cleared the faults, re-read the faults, and it showed no faults after clearing.

4) My 12V battery was brand new when I got the car and it seems to be good. I had the vehicle key in MAR the whole 15-20 min I was doing all this (which I think is not a state at which charging takes place since the car is not "On") and even at the end the Voltage on the 12V was 14.1V

What should I try to do next?
Were there any other modules I should have been looking for error codes other than the Battery Module v. 2 and the Body Computer?
Should I just try charging to 100% again and seeing if I can get the cells to rebalance, skip straight to trying the "regain lost battery" post instructions, or just send an angry email to the Seller complaining they sold me a bad cell (which will accomplish nothing but perhaps be cathartic)?

THANKS!

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Electric Tire Shredder

· #18 · 16 d ago

1) 4019 minus 4004 is only 15mV imbalance, which isn't all that much, for a check at 70% SOC, but it shows more at low SOC. After you take it to 100% a few times it should be 10mV or less, all the way down to about 30%, & about 20mV at 20%.

Electric Tire Shredder

· #19 · 16 d ago

2) Here too, the spread usually shows more at low levels. The car's gauge can read the same as OBD all the way down to 50% or less, & then read 0% by the time OBD is only at 20%.

Electric Tire Shredder

· #20 · 16 d ago

3) Only 5! I had eleven.

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