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I just bought a 2015 500e and the battery is dropping really fast despite reporting high mi/kwh

880 Views 33 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  eranr
Hi All! I just bought a 2015 500e with 49700 miles over the weekend and really love it. It joins the EV6 as our 2 cars are finally both EV.

After driving around town today, I'm wondering if I have a problem. I drive 3 legs 1) 4.4 miles @ 6.2 mi/kwh, 2) 3.2 miles @ 5.0 mi/kwh, and 3) 6.2 miles @ 4.7 mi/kwh. Numbers reported by the dash sound great, and I drove with no a/c and very careful to see how efficient I could be. However the battery % dropped from 47 to 22 over this drive. How's that possible? The numbers don't add up...

In theory I used 2.7 kwh, which is ~12% of the ~22.4 kwh that we have available, but the battery % dropped 25%.

I've read the forum quite a bit, and I still can't tell if it is the battery % reporting that is incorrect, or if the battery is actually losing more charge than the measured charge usage in the mi/kwh the dash shows after a drive. Is this the calibration error I have read so much about or is did I get sold a car with a bad battery?

Based on the reported 25% battery drop, I can drive only 55 miles in town under prefect conditions while my car reports I'm getting ~5mi/kwh. That's not exactly acceptable to me. Thanks in advance for any help!

Oh, and the guessometer showed 52 miles when I started, 52 miles after leg 1, ~42 miles after leg 2, and 25 miles when I got back home. The guessometer seems to be calculated using the my high mi/kwh but adjusts its value based on the battery %.
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4) Anything above about 13.2V indicates the starter battery is being charged. That happens whenever the key is on (1 click or 2) and whenever the car is charging. There is a way to check non-charging voltage with OBD, but it's not that accurate, & I can't recall exactly how to do it at the moment. Every 500e owner (incl. 2nd-gen!) should add a $30 Bluetooth battery monitor such as a BM2 or BM6:

Post-Purchase Preparation. 5/17/23 Update: Lightning...
What should I try to do next?
...
Should I just try charging to 100% again and seeing if I can get the cells to rebalance
Yes, & listen for the "balancing buzz". If the imbalance is reduced, but not to 10mV at 100%, just unplug/replug, repeat until it's not going any lower, & report back.
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only 15mV imbalance
As a point of reference, after going a few months without balancing to 100% I once had 20mV imbalance, but it dropped to 7 with just 1 full charge.

I just checked post #1 & the rapid gauge drop was below 50%, where imbalance & % gauge discrepancy usually increase, so it will be interesting to see OBD mV & % below half charge, either before or after balancing.
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Well, I got 1 more data point after an 11.7 mile drive that supposedly used 2.17 Kwh (5.4 mi/kwh reported on dash) - or what should be ~10%.
SOC on the dash dropped from 76% to 62% while the SOC in AlfaOBD dropped from Max 78.04, Avg 77.65, and Min 75.69 down to 66.67%/66.27%/62.75% after the drive.
The min/max difference increased from 15 mV to 24 mV with the same cell being the lowest cell.

I realize this one drive likely will not help establish the problem, but it does appear the min cell and min SOC is dropping faster than the max/avg and the min/max gap is growing larger. It's fun to keep track anyways. I will wait till I get down to 20 - 30% and then charge to 100% where I try to ensure balancing occurs to report back. I don't drive much so that could be awhile.
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That likely will be helpfull, & I'm glad you're doing it this way even though I forgot to suggest it. It will give us a basis for comparison to after balancing the cells.
I charged up to 100% and heard the rebalancing noise, but the data is just strange.

1) The car charged from 19% to 99% in just 1 hr 46 min. I am using an L2 charger, but the car is supposed to max charge at 6.6 kw. If 80% is ~18 kwh, then giving 18 kwh in 1.75 hr is just impossible. That could point to a calibration error if the car thinks its at 19% when it is really at something closer to 40%.

2) The bigger concern for me is that the SOC is 100%/100%/94% max/avg/min and a max 4110 mV to 4065 mV min after charging to 100%. A number of cells were in the 4080's but the last module contained 4065, 2 x 4074 and a 4080 mV cells. It looks like my last post has been flagged for moderator review and this one was not, but I mentioned in that one that my min/max was 93 mV (3802/3709 mV) at 20% SOC (in alfaobd 39/37/20).

3) I heard the rebalancing noise, but I noticed it didn't make the rebalancing noise after opening the door to restart charging. I then went and unplugged/replugged the car and the car started charging for about a second before stopping to charge and again no rebalancing. I guess I need to take the charge down a little more to get it to start rebalancing.

Earlier when I was in the 70% range I had a bad but not horrible 14 mV max/min difference. Now after charging to 100% and rebalancing, I have a 45 mV difference.

Tomorrow I suppose I will try driving down to 98% and recharging/balancing.
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Your plan seems good, to drive it down to 98% & try another balance cycle.

At ~70% you had 14mV imbalance. Discharging will typically increase imbalance, in this case to 93mV at ~20%.
As it charged back through 70% the imbalance likely remained at 93mV or more. Then charged to 100%, with only once balance cycle, it only dropped to 45mV.

Capacity based on the 6.6kW spec won't be accurate. I've seen mine showing 6.9kW on a public charger meter. For all I know it's been even more at times, when I don't look, or there's no gauge. It seemed to add about 35%/hour the last time I checked at an un-metered Volta unit that shows "7.68 - 8.32kW" on PlugShare.com
Well, more weird stuff I don't get...

After dropping down to 98% and then charging to get the car to rebalance, nothing changed. The min max voltage were almost exactly the same with a 43mV spread but a few mV lower (4103/4060). My SOC was only 98/96/89) After driving 6 miles I learned that the 80"s don't exist for me. I just drop from 95 to 80 like it's nothing.

After this 6.4 mile drive that dropped me from 100 - 80, my cells are now closer balanced with a 17mV spread (4033/4016).

How does alfaobd determine soc? It's calibration relative to mV doesn't always seem consistent to me.

Is there a way to get my cells to actually charge up to 4110 rather than 4065? It seems like that missing 45 mV at the top end is quite critical and equivalent to at least 10% capacity but maybe as much as 15%...

I previously had
Max SOC: 39.22%
Average SOC: 36.86%
Min SOC: 20.78%

Max Cell Voltage: 3802 mV
Min Cell Voltage: 3709 mV

I saw you posted this in the past for your car:

Max SOC: 26.27 %
Average SOC: 25.10 %
Min SOC: 23.92 %

Max Cell Voltage: 3636 mV
Min Cell Voltage: 3622 mV

I clearly have a much bigger imbalance at the low end, but why is my SOC at 3702 mV so much lower than your SOC with 3622 mV? Is that a calibration issue in alfaobd?
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Maybe, & I don't know how the car's gauge or OBD calculate SOC%, besides what I wrote in post #14, but I wonder whether or not it's very important.

If you want to compare to some of my other readings, here's a link to some from when I took it to zero. First in D, & then in N:


When you took it to 100 again did you listen for & hear the "balancing buzz"?

BTW, MultiECUScan appears to have a way to activate the balancing cycle, presumably regardless of SOC.

The only way I know to try & make it charge to a higher voltage is to unplug/replug, or open/close the left door.
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Sorry if you already mentioned these, but please confirm that you:
  • Are using the OEM charge cord, since it's the only one I know for sure will always take it to 100%
  • Have or ordered a voltage gauge or Bluetooth 12V battery monitor, so we can check that it's good, & not draining the HV
  • Ordered a ~$13 yellow adapter (not just an extension that happens to be yellow color, click here) to check for errors in the BCM that can make the % jump around
OEM cords:
Product Communication Device Gadget Material property Rectangle

2013-17 on left. On right, 2018-19.
Sorry I'm not positive that the newer charger will max out your 2015.
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Maybe, & I don't know how the car's gauge or OBD calculate SOC%, besides what I wrote in post #14, but I wonder whether or not it's very important.

If you want to compare to some of my other readings, here's a link to some from when I took it to zero. First in D, & then in N:


When you took it to 100 again did you listen for & hear the "balancing buzz"?

BTW, MultiECUScan appears to have a way to activate the balancing cycle, presumably regardless of SOC.

The only way I know to try & make it charge to a higher voltage is to unplug/replug, or open/close the left door.
First off, that spreadsheet is awesome!!!! Thank you for sharing because that is exactly the type of data I was looking for to help identify where/why I might be having a battery issue. I definitely will be doing that same tracking soon.

First thing I noticed is that my car claims I only have ~42 Full Ah compared to your ~60. I wonder how that is measured/calculated and if I can regain the missing Ah with a take the car to 0 recalibration. That seems to be where the SOC value comes from (available Ah / full Ah)

Unfortunately I got caught up with some work after plugging in the car, so when I ran out to check on the battery it was already done and I did not get to confirm if it did a rebalancing buzz again. It was actually at 97% when i plugged and was very slow to get to 98% (which is when I left it for work stuff), so I assumed it was operating properly and going to balance but I understand the concern that maybe it never actually tried to balance.

Where did you read about Multiecuscan doing the balancing? I have been searching like crazy but haven't found that anywhere. I wonder if its available in the free version. If so, I would definitely try it.

As for the other items:
The car unfortunately did not come with the OEM charger, so that is not an option for me. Also, I park/charge outside where I do not have an option for using a L1 charger and my L2 charging post is the only option. It's crazy, but our outside outlet is GFCI but has no ground wire going to it so the L1 charger that came with my Kia Niro wouldn't even work. My L2 Grizzl-e did get the car up to 100% (based on max cell voltage and max SOC) and did start the rebalancing previously, so I know it is capable of it.

The battery is brand new and I don't seem to lose any SOC or mV between drives (which have been days apart), but short answer is no I do not have a monitor in place. I can start to periodically check it with a multimeter though.

Yes to the yellow adapter and checking for BCM errors. The only two error I have are about the humidity sensor being not detected.
What other modules should I/can I be checking for errors? I have only ever looked at BCM and the battery module for checking battery health. I was worried about messing something up by going into things I am unfamiliar with.

Lastly, I noticed this in my latest log:
Balance Status:
Number of Cells balanced: 0
Sleep time: 336 sec
Balance time during Sleep Cycle: 0 sec
Balance time during Sleep Cycle (EEPROM): 2534.59 H
Balance time during Cycle (Plug In): 0 sec
Balance time during Cycle (Plug In) (EEPROM): 241.25 H
Balance Power (P(4V^2)/R)* # of cells balancing): 0.00 W
Energy lost to balance (EEPROM): 10.00 kWh
Target SOC differential at the end of balance: 0.39 %
SOC differential at the end of balance: 0.39 %

My question is, shouldn't the bolded/underlined Balance time of 241.25 H have increased from before and after the balancing that I know happened because I heard it? I looked at my old logs and this number hasn't changed at all. In fact, none of these numbers have changed since I started collecting logs last week. I wonder if I have a balancing issue.
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SOC value comes from (available Ah / full Ah)
Yes, that seems to be pretty close to the OBD minimum SOC. Maybe you can also figure out what the car's own gauge is based on.
I understand the concern that maybe it never actually tried to balance.
You also understand that a large imbalance may not be fully corrected by just one balancing cycle, right?
Where did you read about Multiecuscan doing the balancing?
Rectangle Font Software Screenshot Parallel

That app only works on iPhone (which I don't have) or Windows, for which I have the free version. Choose the following, in sequence:
  • Fiat
  • 500e EV (US version)
  • Engine
  • Battery Pack Control".
Once connected, click "Adjustments".

I don't know if it will actually work since I don't have a USB cable & my laptop is so old it doesn't even have Bluetooth.
What other modules should I/can I be checking for errors? I have only ever looked at BCM and the battery module for checking battery health. I was worried about messing something up by going into things I am unfamiliar with.
Simply checking modules for errors & clearing them won't mess anything up, but unfortunately I think you simply have one or more weak cells.
looked at my old logs and... none of these numbers have changed
Did you know that the logs put all the new data at the very bottom, below the old data?
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You also understand that a large imbalance may not be fully corrected by just one balancing cycle, right?

Did you know that the logs put all the new data at the very bottom, below the old data?
Yes and yes. Checking the whole history of logs from old to new is how I know the values never changed never changed.

I have the OBDLink SX and a laptop I can use, so I will test that out at some point and let you know how it goes. Thanks!
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