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Discussion Starter #41
I've been to pretty much all of the dealers here in SoCal and yes I brought my own obd scanner. Most of the cars were at around 30% SOC. A few were at around 80%. I really didn't think much of it. Besides, they all sat at the auction lot for much longer after they became off lease. As much as I shopped around, the car that I ended up buying was negotiated over the phone. After all the test drives I realized that they were pretty much the same. It came down to me finding the cheapest 2016 that wasn't beat up cosmetically and with decent mileage. I knew that I would be putting a lot of miles on it anyway so I didn't feel like paying more for a low mileage car. I think I paid $6,700 before tax for a clean 2016 with 30k miles back in November. I'm already at 36k miles as of this weekend.
So, to take up the question on SOC, what was the SOH on the car you ended up getting when you got it and what is it now? Are we talking about the same thing, state of health? Is it variable and improvable?
It looks like they're trying to charge a premium for 2017 cars. But I came to realize that, take my last car, for instance. Somebody will charge extra when it's sold because I went off lease 1/13. But as a buyer, would I really want to pay $1,500 or more extra for an extra couple months of warranty? No.
 

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Any thoughts on the driving patterns I described? I bet I'm right, and I bet I'm not the only leaser to have driven this way: I frequently drove the cars down to about 8% percent remaining in the charge meter and routinely charged them to 100%. I confess that I just didn't read the manual with respect to that. I was thinking about getting where I needed to go. On the other hand, it's reassuring to hear that Bosch may have designed the system with that kind of driver in mind.
Your driving pattern is likely fairly typical, especially since I'm pretty sure there's nothing about that in the manual. In fact it says to leave it plugged in so it's "fully" charged the whole time you're on vacation!

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any way to determine a car's history of time-at-SOC, since even those numbers from OBD are incorrect.

Fortunately that doesn't seem to have much effect on true SOC, since as you noted, Bosch has designed it well, preventing us from taking it to its true 100% or to zero, as well as limiting high temperature & current.
 

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...I just passed 90K miles... with cabin heat in the morning, and AC in the afternoon, ...up to 75 mph... I saw very little battery degradation until I hit about 80K, but since then there has been a noticeable drop. Lately, even when I have driven very modestly and then charged up, (which is when you will get the highest range readout) I only see about 80 miles indicated range. I used to get as much as 100 miles indicated. Also, keep in mind that because I am running significantly taller 17" tires, I am actually traveling about 6-7% farther/faster than indicated...
Since the indicated range can be wildly inaccurate*, maybe you can give us a more reliable indication of range.

*If I drive modestly to charge up at my friend's on a little hill it reads in the 80s, & at the sea-level charger it reads over 110. Driving the exact same route to my local grocery just a few miles per hour faster takes double the kWh.
 

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Since the indicated range can be wildly inaccurate*, maybe you can give us a more reliable indication of range.

*If I drive modestly to charge up at my friend's on a little hill it reads in the 80s, & at the sea-level charger it reads over 110. Driving the exact same route to my local grocery just a few miles per hour faster takes double the kWh.
Given that he has 90K miles on his car, I think he has a pretty good idea of his cars behavior and there is no reason to think the reduction in range he is seeing is real.
 

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The fiat 500e gives you 3 readings
SOH - state of health
SOH-R - state of health (internal resistance, or self discharge)
SOH-C - state of health (capacity)

At least that's my understanding of the 3, and I could be completely wrong. So my SOH was and is still 100%. My SOH-R was and still is 99.1%. And my SOH-C was and still is 86.x%.

That means my battery capacity is 86% compared to original capacity. The battery cells internal resistance is good, but that doesn't explain why the overall health is 100%. While having 86% of battery capacity left is not completely shocking to me, it also doesn't explain why my real life range is still comparable to a new battery. So either the numbers are incorrect, or they don't mean what we think they mean.

Again, data is fun to look at and analyze. They don't in any way cause me to be concerned or worry. I'm going to lose zero sleep over the battery degradation issue as it's completely unavoidable and I would have saved a ton of money already by the time the car is no longer drivable.

So, to take up the question on SOC, what was the SOH on the car you ended up getting when you got it and what is it now? Are we talking about the same thing, state of health? Is it variable and improvable?
It looks like they're trying to charge a premium for 2017 cars. But I came to realize that, take my last car, for instance. Somebody will charge extra when it's sold because I went off lease 1/13. But as a buyer, would I really want to pay $1,500 or more extra for an extra couple months of warranty? No.
 

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At least that's my understanding of the 3, and I could be completely wrong. So my SOH was and is still 100%. My SOH-R was and still is 99.1%. And my SOH-C was and still is 86.x%.

That means my battery capacity is 86% compared to original capacity. The battery cells internal resistance is good, but that doesn't explain why the overall health is 100%. While having 86% of battery capacity left is not completely shocking to me, it also doesn't explain why my real life range is still comparable to a new battery. So either the numbers are incorrect, or they don't mean what we think they mean.
My three SOH readings are almost exactly like yours. My car has 22.6K miles. I too, am getting the stated gov't range. At least I think I am. So yeah, I would like to really know what these three SOH numbers truly mean. Too bad we don't have the engineers that designed the 500e in this forum.

One thought, is the virtual battery being resized as the battery degrades? Are the upper and lower real charge limits being adjusted upwards and downwards to compensate for battery degradation? This "might" explain the couple of reports of high mileage 500e cars suddenly having noticeable range loss, as perhaps the buffers no longer get adjusted. Again, just a theory, nothing to back that theory up.
 

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Given that he has 90K miles on his car, I think he has a pretty good idea of his cars behavior...
Right, but even with my shorter experience, I know to never even bother with the mile gauge, so I found it a bit strange that he would use that as a reference point. Even though mine is USUALLY fairly accurate if I'm not at either end of a hill or change in speed, I still only rarely glance at it, usually just for a laugh when I AM by a hill or speed change. Also, my OBD always indicates that it's SOC (& I think SOH) numbers are in need of calibration, requiring me to take it to zero for that. It consistently reads lower than the car's display. Our mile gauges may also go out of calibration, maybe around 80k miles.
 

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Some users check a 4th battery health reading: Full Amp-Hour Capacity.

Unfortunately, after analyzing 72* users' data reported here, all 4 readings seem pretty much meaningless, since I can see no real pattern based on age, mileage, time at high temperature, or time at high current. Not surprising, since my own SOH was 88.63%, then 86.67, 59.22, & now INCREASED to a literally unbelievable 100.00% (same as one reporting with 47k mi), & my SOH-R is only 87.84, yet I still get more than the EPA range.

So ya, it WAS kind of fun to look at, until it became apparent that it's probably pointless. Hopefully a pattern will eventually emerge, &/or someone will discover other more indicative readings we can check. Possibly going to zero% & then fully charging will re-calibrate them, but ya, in the mean time, it's definitely no cause for concern.

As for the "virtual battery" being re-sized, that would be pretty easy to figure out: Just check the voltage when charging auto-stops. If several people report, with various mileage on their cars, we can see if there's a trend. HOWEVER, since voltage is altered by turning the ignition to "on", & even more at "start", and both of those vary depending on lights, HVAC, etc, you would need everyone to check it in the farily short window where readings are available right after closing the driver's door, without inserting the key.

*There are more, but I didn't count them since they had obvious glaring errors.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Well, I’ve I bought a late 2016 car (the 4-year warranty runs out in October) with 16.6 k miles and insofar as I can tell at this early stage, very good OBD numbers. I had it checked at a fiat service shop and the supervisor said it’s in great shape. Thanks again to everyone for your very helpful comments.
 

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Well, I’ve I bought a late 2016 car (the 4-year warranty runs out in October) with 16.6 k miles and insofar as I can tell at this early stage, very good OBD numbers. I had it checked at a fiat service shop and the supervisor said it’s in great shape. Thanks again to everyone for your very helpful comments.
Hello Sudaval,
We are certainly happy to hear this. Please do no hesitate reaching out to our team in the future if you have any questions or concerns, we're always happy to assist.
Laura
FiatCares
 
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