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Hi Folks: Thanks for sharing your experiences and suggestions on resolving 500e faults.

Here's my current predicament: My 2015 Fiat 500e has only 31K miles on it but lost its power steering while I was driving it. I was able to drive a few miles to my home (slowly) and replaced the 12V battery since it was showing a "Service Electric System" error. Once home I tried all the rest methods listed on these forums, including the great list of suggestions by ElectricTireShredder.

So I had it towed to our local Fiat Dealer Service Center just south of SF 1 month ago. At that point the car was throwing a bunch of PIM and HV errors. The Service Center explained that Fiat will pay to replace the HV battery under warranty only if there is no PIM error. So I bought the AlphaOBD app and the Konnwei dongle and spent several hours in the car in the dealer's garage. I was able to reset and clear all the HV related fault codes (including B23AE & P1AE2), but could not clear the PIM fault code P0A8D: "DC to DC Converter System Voltage Low". I then compared the entire system status readout to that of ElectricTireShredder's functioning 500e (thank you, ElectricTireShredder!) and we determined that the HV battery does not appear to be faulty. We believe the PIM is not getting power, perhaps due to an open circuit in the HVIL (High Voltage Interlock Loop).

So I'm a bit stuck here. I'm trying to decide whether to throw in the towel or pay $2300 to try to install a used PIM from LKQ Auto Salvage ($900 for PIM + $1400 install). If $2300 would fix it, I would love to save our 500e. I just ran this strategy by the Fiat Service Center and they responded:

"This is what we just heard back from (Fiat) engineering: "you can not use a used PIM for the 500e because you cant program the skim key as its VIN locked". if you have heard of people having any success installing used PIM's you can feel free to take the risk, but we cant make any guarantees."

Has anyone here heard of successful installations of used PIMs? Reading the comments above from AustinEVOnly (comment #26) and JCollins (comment #37), it appears that in both of those situations, replacing a PIM with a used PIM was unsuccessful.

thank you!
 

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2013 FIAT 500e
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#26 & #37 both seem like maybe NEW units.

How does Fiat claim that "DC to DC Converter System Voltage Low" is a "PIM fault"?

Someone here or on the other forum got his NY area dealership to install a used PIM, & I think that after HV pack replacement the car worked fine with the used PIM.
 

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from (Fiat) engineering: "you can not use a used PIM for the 500e because you cant program the skim key as its VIN locked"
WTF! I just came across this again by accident. In the service training manual (click here) pg 141 (pdf pg 149) says:

"Performing a resolver offset angle relearn procedure is necessary when performing a major repair such as replacing the PIM, eMotor, or EVCU. If the PIM is reprogrammed, relearn is not necessary. Refer to service information for the proper procedure."

So apparently Fiat DOES have a reprogramming procedure!
 

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WTF! I just came across this again by accident. In the service training manual (click here) pg 141 (pdf pg 149) says:

"Performing a resolver offset angle relearn procedure is necessary when performing a major repair such as replacing the PIM, eMotor, or EVCU. If the PIM is reprogrammed, relearn is not necessary. Refer to service information for the proper procedure."

So apparently Fiat DOES have a reprogramming procedure!
I just found this document on the specific PIM error code P0A8D - found it on a german fiat 500 message board...looks like a bulletin for Fiat techs. Unfortunately it appears to be above my pay grade, but some interesting leads to follow!
 

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Aha! So it's not exactly a "PIM failure" as Fiat is telling you, but rather a failure of either:
  • 12V battery system*
  • Fused B+ circuit high resistance
  • PIM case ground*
  • Charging system failure, OR maybe...
  • PIM
* So for sure check for 11.6V or more at the 12V terminals, immediately before any other testing, & check with a multimeter for low resistance between the PIM case & ground.

But also make SURE the humidity sensor is unplugged, & that every fuse in all 3 boxes is intact, as well as the big orange fuse under the back seat.
 

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Aha! So it's not exactly a "PIM failure" as Fiat is telling you, but rather a failure of either:
  • 12V battery system*
  • Fused B+ circuit high resistance
  • PIM case ground*
  • Charging system failure, OR maybe...
  • PIM
* So for sure check for 11.6V or more at the 12V terminals, immediately before any other testing, & check with a multimeter for low resistance between the PIM case & ground.

But also make SURE the humidity sensor is unplugged, & that every fuse in all 3 boxes is intact, as well as the big orange fuse under the back seat.
Ok - I will check the two Fuse locations in this picture Fiat 500e Fuses and The Power Distribution Center », along with the interior fuses under the Drivers side as well as the HV Fuse.
 

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We have a 2017 Fiat 500e and we have taken it twice to South Coast Fiat/Chrysler in the last month. The first time the "EV System" check in light went on, we paid $250 to have the coolant line fixed (apparently leaking and there were bubbles in the line). One week after getting the car back, the "EV System" light went on again and this time they are saying $10, 650 to fix the Power Inverter Module and the Electrical Control Panel. Obviously it doesn't make sense to fix given the cost of the car itself. Sounds like @consciouspilot is going through the same issue as me. What did you do? Thank You
 

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We have a 2017 Fiat 500e and we have taken it twice to South Coast Fiat/Chrysler in the last month. The first time the "EV System" check in light went on, we paid $250 to have the coolant line fixed (apparently leaking and there were bubbles in the line). One week after getting the car back, the "EV System" light went on again and this time they are saying $10, 650 to fix the Power Inverter Module and the Electrical Control Panel. Obviously it doesn't make sense to fix given the cost of the car itself. Sounds like @consciouspilot is going through the same issue as me. What did you do? Thank You
The first step is to follow ETS' list of steps below. His list has helped others revive their 500e's. But ultimately those steps didn't solve my PIM issue (but did resolve my HV battery errors). Right now, I am still in limbo but am in discussions with Fiat USA about how to handle. We have determined that a used PIM ($900+$1400 install) is not an option since the VIN is hardcoded into the PIM and can't be reset (at least not by local Fiat Service Centers). So it's a $9k-10K new PIM installation. Not worth it if I have to pay. I will keep y'all updated if I make any progress with Fiat USA/Stellantis.
 

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The first step is to follow ETS' list of steps below. His list has helped others revive their 500e's. But ultimately those steps didn't solve my PIM issue (but did resolve my HV battery errors). Right now, I am still in limbo but am in discussions with Fiat USA about how to handle. We have determined that a used PIM ($900+$1400 install) is not an option since the VIN is hardcoded into the PIM and can't be reset (at least not by local Fiat Service Centers). So it's a $9k-10K new PIM installation. Not worth it if I have to pay. I will keep y'all updated if I make any progress with Fiat USA/Stellantis.
Thanks! I just tried calling Fiat corporate and they said essentially "not our problem, out of warranty." Good luck to us both
 

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@OCZipper
**** that sucks, i am upset since my fiat is dead too. And the dealership wants 33k for a new battery that got went during driving in the rain. I fell ripped off honestly, i am not giving up on electric cars just Fiat! Are you planning on selling your car? if so how?

Also what's the number you called for Fiat corporate id like to call them myself about my dead 500e.
 

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Sorry I forgot to say welcome to the forum @ninjabug500e !

You might have better luck than me, being more strongly motivated: The last time I looked on this forum & the other one, I didn't find a thread I remembered with an owner in the north-east (NY, I think) who's dealer insisted on PIM replacement prior to HV pack warranty, but the user got a used PIM & they installed it. I believe they subsequently warrantied the pack & it worked, but I'm not 100% positive about that.

After that, someone on the other forum stood his ground, insisting that Fiat show proof that the PIM was faulty: "Show me the code. SHOW me the CODE. SHOW ME THE CODE!". They eventually relented, replaced only the HV pack, & the car was fine.

Then someone on this forum was told by a dealer that it was impossible to use a used PIM, since it couldn't be reprogrammed to work with a different VIN. Pg 141 (pdf pg 149) of the technician training manual* discusses reprogramming, which I previously thought indicated that it was possible to reprogram a new OR used one. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will chime in, but I suppose it's possible that a PIM can only be programmed once, so a used one won't work.

*Service Manual (training course)
Product Rectangle Font Parallel Slope

"Performing a resolver offset angle relearn procedure is necessary when performing a major repair
such as replacing the PIM, eMotor, or EVCU. If the PIM is reprogrammed, relearn is not necessary.
Refer to service information for the proper procedure."
 

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If someone could prove that installing a used PIM would fix the PIM issue, that would be a gamechanger for MANY people on these Fiat 500e forums. There are plenty of them available for $800-$900 apiece on LKQ auto salvage, but the local Fiat Dealer and Fiat USA told me repeatedly that a used PIM could not be reprogrammed with your VIN and therefor would not work. The last time I spoke with the local Fiat dealer, he said this a different way...he said that if one installs a used PIM, and if the HV battery ALSO needs to be replaced under warrantee, Fiat USA can point to the difference in VIN in the used PIM as a way to get out of paying for the HV battery replacement. This is interesting as the replacement of the PIM should solve many of these Fiat 500e issues without the need to replace the HV battery. But of course he told me this just after I had sold my 500e for $3000 to a mechanic who wants to try to fix it himself.

I hope someone does try to install a used PIM to resolve this common PIM failure. If it works, I'll buy another Fiat with PIM failure and will fix it up!

thanks, all, and especially Electric Tire Shredder, for the advice and help.
 

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False PIM failure codes seem pretty common, but I believe PIM failure is very rare. I can only recall ONE report of PIM replacement working. All the rest made no difference, & were only done to meet Fiat's requirement to warranty the HV pack, where false failure codes also seem pretty common. Here's mine, from my perfectly-functional car. Click to enlarge:
Product Font Screenshot Number Rectangle
 

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Trying to follow the several cases here. Not sure where everyone is located, or whose issues have been resolved, or not. Sounds like one person gave up and sold their car which makes me sad.

This whole PIM thing seems like a class action lawsuit, no? Anyone here a lawyer, or have a lawyer in the family?! Consumer protection lawyer? Make some posts about it on Twitter? or something? seems like attention needs to be drawn to this, so that Fiat comes up with the solution, cuz I'm just not believing that all these PIMs are bad. To me, it just doesn't seem right that although the HV battery is warrantied, nobody can have this fix performed without first spending big dollars on the power inverter module, which seems ridiculous. I don't know if everybody is having a different issue or if these PIMs are actually going bad, but it seems like very low mileage for everyone for a expensive part/repair like this to be required. And it seems as if a lot, if not all, of these codes and issues are occurring after a power disruption which required the 12 volt battery to be replaced and at about the timing or age that a 12 volt battery would need to be replaced. Unfortunately, the problem with calling out Fiat on this issue is that I honestly don't think Fiat gives a darn about their reputation in North America anymore, they're sort of over us.

Anyhow, this all happened to me and I was able to get my car going again with help from this forum (especially Electric Tire Shredder). Getting those last codes cleared, it seemed important that I had the ignition key in the right position (MAR - and you get this position after you turn the key on and then off) when I asked the OBD app to clear codes. But, even so, I'm still not sure exactly at what point (in the solution steps) did the trick that got the car to work again. ETS probably tracked that better than I did, cuz I was so stressed out I think I've blacked out on some of that week trying to get my car going! But anyhow my two cents is that it does not make sense for such a major repair to be required at such low mileage and if something went wrong in your car regarding power it was likely the 12 volt battery and now you just need to figure out how to reset everything after installing new 12 volt. The dealership service centers seem completely useless in this problem.
 

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False PIM failure codes seem pretty common, but I believe PIM failure is very rare. I can only recall ONE report of PIM replacement working. All the rest made no difference, & were only done to meet Fiat's requirement to warranty the HV pack, where false failure codes also seem pretty common. Here's mine, from my perfectly-functional car. Click to enlarge:
View attachment 113692
This is a secondary code. Here is a post from a German forum that seems to quote Fiat Service procedure:

P1E25-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY FAILURE LEVEL 2
SET CONDITION
This secondary fault is set if the primary fault is not set initially. The vehicle is shut down and can not or will
not start. This DTC will also set if the high voltage Service Disconnect is removed from the vehicle and the
ignition is on. The MIL is illuminated when the DTC is Active. The Stored DTC does not set the MIL and is
erased after 40 key cycles. If this DTC is erased using the scan tool, it may take up to 3 minutes before the code
will clear.

Possible Causes
SERVICE DISCONNECT
AIR ELECTRIC HEATER (AEH)
AIR ELECTRIC HEATER (AEH) HIGH VOLTAGE HARNESS
ELECTRIC AIR COMPRESSOR (EAC)
E-MOTOR
E-MOTOR HIGH VOLTAGE HARNESS
POWER INVERTER MODULE (PIM)
POWER INVERTER MODULE (PIM) HIGH VOLTAGE HARNESS
HIGH VOLTAGE POWER DISTRIBUTION CENTER (HVPDC)
HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY PACK (HVBP)
ON BOARD CHARGING MODULE (OBCM)
ON BOARD CHARGING MODULE (OBCM) HIGH VOLTAGE HARNESS
BATTERY COOLANT HEATER (BCH)
BATTERY CHARGER

hier was würde ich als erstes versuchen:
1. CHECK THE SERVICE DISCONNECT INTERNAL FUSE FOR AN OPEN CIRCUIT
NOTE: If the high voltage Service Disconnect is removed from the vehicle while the ignition is on, this DTC will set. Make sure if any work was performed on the vehicle to reinstall the Service Disconnect and clear this DTC.
1. Turn the ignition off.
2. Remove the high voltage Service Disconnect in accordance with the Service Information. Refer to
ELECTRIC VEHICLE CONTROL SYSTEM, STANDARD PROCEDURE . (Dieses Dokument findest Du unten)
3. Measure the resistance between the high voltage contacts in the service disconnect.
Is the resistance below 5.0 Ohms?

wenn JA dann:

2. CHECK FOR ACTIVE DTC P1A21-00 HV BATTERY CONTACTOR CONTROL SEQUENCE INCORRECT
NOTE: If DTC P1A21-00 HV BATTERY CONTACTOR CONTROL SEQUENCE INCORRECT is set as Active along with this DTC, diagnose P1A21-00 first.
1. Reinstall the high voltage Service Disconnect in accordance with the Service Information. Refer to ELECTRIC VEHICLE CONTROL SYSTEM, STANDARD PROCEDURE .
2. Turn the ignition on.
3. With the scan tool, read DTCs.
Is the status Active for DTC P1A21-00 HV BATTERY CONTACTOR CONTROL SEQUENCE INCORRECT and also this DTC?
Yes
Diagnose DTC P1A21-00 HV BATTERY CONTACTOR CONTROL SEQUENCE INCORRECT in accordance with the Service Information. Refer to DIAGNOSTIC CODE INDEX .
Perform the BATTERY PACK CONTROL MODULE (BPCM) VERIFICATION TEST.
No
Go To 3

3. ACTIVE DTC
1. Turn the ignition on.
2. With the scan tool, record and erase BPCM DTCs.
3. Turn the ignition off and close all doors. Wait three minutes.
4. Turn the ignition on. Wait three minutes.
5. With the scan tool, read DTCs.
Is the status Active for this DTC?
Yes
Go To 5
No
Go To 4

4. STORED DTC
NOTE: DTC P1E25-00 has set as Stored or did not reset.
1. With the scan tool, record and erase BPCM DTCs.
2. Cycle the ignition key from off to on twenty times. Listen for the high voltage battery contactors to open and close each time the ignition is cycled from off to on.
3. Turn the ignition on.
4. With the scan tool, record and erase BPCM DTCs.
5. Turn the ignition off and close all doors. Wait three minutes.
6. Turn the ignition on. Wait three minutes.
7. With the scan tool, read DTCs.
Did DTC P1E25-00 reset after performing the twenty key cycles where the contactors could be heard opening and closing or has this vehicle been previously diagnosed and returned with DTC P1E25-00 set as Active or Stored?
Yes
Replace the High Voltage Battery Pack in accordance with the Service Information. Refer to
BATTERY, HIGH-VOLTAGE, REMOVAL .
Perform the BATTERY PACK CONTROL MODULE (BPCM) VERIFICATION TEST.
No
Monitor this vehicle to see if it returns in the future with any BPCM DTCs.
The condition or conditions that originally set this DTC are not present at this time. Perform
the INTERMITTENT CONDITION diagnostic procedure. Refer to STANDARD
PROCEDURE .

5. 12 VOLT BATTERY
NOTE: DTC P1E25-00 may set if there is an issue with the 12 Volt Battery. After resolving the 12 Volt battery issue, DTC P1E25-00 may take several attempts to clear using the scan tool. Continue clearing DTCs until this code clears.

Is DTC P1A0C-00-BATTERY ENERGY CONTROL MODULE SYSTEM VOLTAGE LOW and/or DTC P1A0D-00-BATTERY ENERGY CONTROL MODULE SYSTEM VOLTAGE HIGH set along with this DTC?
Yes
Diagnose the battery voltage DTCs P1A0C-00 and/or P1A0D-00 in accordance with the Service Information. Refer to DIAGNOSTIC CODE INDEX .
Perform the BATTERY PACK CONTROL MODULE (BPCM) VERIFICATION TEST. Refer to
STANDARD PROCEDURE .
No
Go To 6

6. OTHER DTCs SET WITH THIS DTC
NOTE: This DTC can set by itself or with other BPCM DTCs.
1. The following DTCs can set along with this DTC:
P0A9C-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY TEMPERATURE SENSOR 1 CIRCUIT PERFORMANCE
P0A9D-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY TEMPERATURE SENSOR 1 CIRCUIT LOW
P0A9E-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY TEMPERATURE SENSOR 1 CIRCUIT HIGH
P0AA4-00-HYBRID BATTERY NEGATIVE CONTACTOR CIRCUIT STUCK CLOSED
P0ABB-00-HYBRID BATTERY PACK VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT PERFORMANCE
P0ABD-00-HYBRID BATTERY PACK VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT HIGH
P0AC3-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY PACK CURRENT SENSOR 1 CIRCUIT INTERMITTENT/ERRATIC
P0B12-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY PACK CURRENT SENSOR 2 CIRCUIT INTERMITTENT/ERRATIC
P0B13-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY PACK CURRENT SENSOR 1/2 CORRELATION
P0B3B-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT
P0B3C-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT PERFORMANCE
P0B3D-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT LOW
P0B3E-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT HIGH
P0CA6-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY CHARGING CURRENT HIGH
P0CA7-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY DISCHARGING CURRENT HIGH
P0DE6-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY PACK CELL VOLTAGE LOW
P0DE7-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY PACK CELL VOLTAGE HIGH
P0E43-00-HYBRID/EV POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE B
P1ABE-00-BATTERY ENERGY CONTROL MODULE HYBRID BATTERY PACK OVER TEMP
P1E19-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY MODULE OVER TEMP
Have any of these DTCs set along with this DTC?
Yes
Go To 7
No
Replace the High Voltage Battery Pack in accordance with the Service Information. Refer to BATTERY, HIGH-VOLTAGE, REMOVAL .
Perform the BATTERY PACK CONTROL MODULE (BPCM) VERIFICATION TEST.
Refer to STANDARD PROCEDURE .

7. DTC GROUPS SET WITH THIS DTC
NOTE: There can be one to four other BPCM DTCs that can set along with this
DTC.
  • If P0AA4-00-HYBRID BATTERY NEGATIVE CONTACTOR CIRCUIT STUCK CLOSED is set, diagnose P0AA4-00.
  • If P0B12-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY PACK CURRENT SENSOR 2 CIRCUIT INTERMITTENT/ERRATIC is set along with P0AC3-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY PACK CURRENT SENSOR 1 CIRCUIT INTERMITTENT/ERRATIC, then diagnose P0B12-00.
  • If P0CA6-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY CHARGING CURRENT HIGH is set along with P0CA7-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY DISCHARGING CURRENT HIGH, then diagnose P0CA6-00.
  • If P0B13-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY PACK CURRENT SENSOR 1/2 CORRELATION is set,diagnose P0B13-00.
  • If P1ABE-00-BATTERY ENERGY CONTROL MODULE HYBRID BATTERY PACK OVERTEMP is set along with P1E19-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY MODULE OVER TEMP, then diagnose P1ABE-00.
  • If P0B12-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY PACK CURRENT SENSOR 2 CIRCUIT INTERMITTENT/ERRATIC is set along with P0ABB-00-HYBRID BATTERY PACK VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT PERFORMANCE, P0ABD-00-HYBRID BATTERY PACK VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT HIGH and P0E43-00-HYBRID/EV POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE B, then diagnose P0E43-00.
  • If P0DE6-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY PACK CELL VOLTAGE LOW is set along with P0DE7-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY PACK CELL VOLTAGE HIGH, P0B3B-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT and P0B3C-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT PERFORMANCE, then diagnose P0DE6-00.
  • If P0B3B-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT is set along with P0B3D-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT LOW and P0B3E-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY VOLTAGE SENSE 1 CIRCUIT HIGH, then diagnose P0B3B-00.
  • If P0A9C-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY TEMPERATURE SENSOR 1 CIRCUIT PERFORMANCE is set along with P0A9D-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY TEMPERATURE SENSOR 1 CIRCUIT LOW and P0A9E-00-HYBRID/EV BATTERY TEMPERATURE SENSOR 1 CIRCUIT HIGH, then diagnose P0A9C-00.
 
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