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Discussion Starter #1
This is just a thread to thank Fiat500 Owners forum for being the top community for information and postings on the new 500.
It seems to get the most traffic out of all the other forums on the web and I just experienced something on another forum that makes me truly understand why.

I have been the test subject for the TWM short shifter assembly and I have been posting updates on the product to help inform to community of this new product.

I recently posted the same update regarding price and availability on the 500 Madness forums and instead of being welcoming and supportive this is the responce I received.
Not even in a private message, but on my user page as a visitor message. Quite unprofessional in my opinion.

" madministrator - 04-17-2012, 10:56 PM

Hi there,

This is a warning not to solicit products on the forum. Repeat offenses will result in a suspension, then a ban.

Thanks for your cooperation and have a nice day "


My thread was also deleted. It seems that on this forum, when you try and help you get in trouble for it....:confused:

How can a forum expect to grow if their administrators act as such?

I could not believe this, and have since then decided to no longer post on 500 madness and stick to this forum.

Just wanted to let everyone know that madness forum does not seem to want to help promote new products and help inform the community.


Moral of the story is, Thank you Fiat500owners for creating and supporting such a great community.

End rant.
 

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Unless their hand is in the pie, you'll get that. Glad to have you here, bud.
 

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Honestly I did not know they had a forum but I will say that this forum has a policy which is similar as it pertains to vendors and promotions. I suppose the difference is how it is handled, I recently spoke with about three or four members here one of which was just last night and we discussed briefly the way things are done here, I won't name names but the member pointed out some key items that I hope to look into further soon but also understood why he received a msg from me as I am simply upholding a policy agreed to when joining and it is required that I do so in accepting the position to assist on the forum. I'm very happy you are here and happy with this forum, I agree in that I think it is the most useful which is back when I was looking around I joined here instead of several other forums I visited, sorry your experiences on the Madness forum where not very good. I'm not standing up for how they did what they did but I somewhat have to think what they did is likely an enforcement of there own policy, the way they handled it would appear to need some work though. Thanks for the post, I find it allows me to know I have chosen the right forum for learning and sharing all things Fiat. :cool:
 

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Maybe it could have been handled better. But 500 madness forum is a vendor and their forum is a way for them to advertise thier products not someone else ;)


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The "have a nice day" makes me laugh.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Maybe it could have been handled better. But 500 madness forum is a vendor and their forum is a way for them to advertise thier products not someone else ;)


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They also carry a wide variety of other aftermarket products. I was simply informing the availability of such product, not making sales or selling it. My post was simply informative.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Honestly I did not know they had a forum but I will say that this forum has a policy which is similar as it pertains to vendors and promotions. I suppose the difference is how it is handled, I recently spoke with about three or four members here one of which was just last night and we discussed briefly the way things are done here, I won't name names but the member pointed out some key items that I hope to look into further soon but also understood why he received a msg from me as I am simply upholding a policy agreed to when joining and it is required that I do so in accepting the position to assist on the forum. I'm very happy you are here and happy with this forum, I agree in that I think it is the most useful which is back when I was looking around I joined here instead of several other forums I visited, sorry your experiences on the Madness forum where not very good. I'm not standing up for how they did what they did but I somewhat have to think what they did is likely an enforcement of there own policy, the way they handled it would appear to need some work though. Thanks for the post, I find it allows me to know I have chosen the right forum for learning and sharing all things Fiat. :cool:
I agree they are most probably enforcing a policy, but the manner in witch it was handled was simply unprofessional.
I would understand that if I was trying to make sales or sell a product without a vendor account that this would not be aloud, But my posting was simply informative to allow other owners to see that this long awaited product was now available.

If they had an issue with the posting they should have confronted me to edit out what they did not want or they should have done so themselves, not simply delete the thread and send me a sarcastic nasty message on my User board.

I am glad I choose this forum as well, there is a lot of great information on here and it seems to be growing everyday! This is a must for us in order to learn this new vehicle that we own!

I am in no way trying to stir up trouble with this posting, I am simply informing the community about my experience. I hold nothing against the madness forum, I simply will no longer be using it!
 

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There's a Jeep forum that censors the threads like that too. And that's a Jeep forum that I don't contribute on.
Pity really. I've done lots of product testing for the offroad community and the members of that forum only get forum-approved propaganda ---- they never get the whole truth on things.

If this forum ever goes down that road, I'm gone.
 

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If you can fit your whole hand in the pie, I'm not sure I want it to begin with.
 

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I feel your pain.

I dislike the way this forum is run as well. You can't say "stealership" without having someone breathe down your neck about it. This is NOT how great forum communities are created. Lame ones, on the other hand...

I will say the mods and powers that be have been very kind and supportive, despite my initiative to be a stick in their "backside" on this issue. Unfortunately I was raised with the mentality that when "silly" rules don't work, you speak up and have them changed (Fight for your right, and all that...). It doesn't seem like that mentality sticks around here. It makes me question the ultimate goal of these forums. Are you out to create great forum communities, or is your primary focus to secure revenue? There exists a world where both goals can be reached in harmonious union.

Speaking as a webmaster, your advertisers don't own you, yet you owe your community everything. The moment you compromise the quality of your content in favor of your sponsors, you've abandoned the heart of your community, leaving it to fall apart.

Sorry to hear about your similar disagreement with the forum policy, dumped500. You're not alone in disagreeing with it, and you're probably not alone in choosing to bring your initiatives elsewhere. It's just very sad that it has to come to this when the "powers that be" should be using these comments as a positive incentive to restructure their policy.

I do not speak to provoke anger, but to inspire change.
 

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Dumped, I have actually followed your posts on the Madness forum on the TWM shifter tests and the other items you offered for sale. Lots of great photos and updates from you as well as support from that forum, which are actually still active threads. They all are still up as of today. One of the last responses I read on the forum from Madness to your TWM testing posts was "Please keep us updated. We spoke with TWM and made arrangements to offer their kit once it is fully developed and available. It is good to have options and our goal is to offer them all..." I probably missed something, but they seemed pretty supportive of your efforts to me. Just as a different perspective, I believe most forums charge vendors a fee to participate and offer products for sale to the community, just like advertisers in a magazine or newspaper. The fee helps to pay the costs of the forum for the guys like me who join for free. I can understand why they won't let a guy like me offer products for sale on the forum and compete against the vendors who pay for the privilege. Particularly if I offer the same product for sale. As Tweak stated, most if not all forums have the same policy. The solution may have been as easy as just signing up as a vendor, but in any case, we all have the right to participate wherever we choose, or not. In any case, just offering one guys opinion.
 

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I feel your pain.

I dislike the way this forum is run as well. You can't say "stealership" without having someone breathe down your neck about it. This is NOT how great forum communities are created. Lame ones, on the other hand...

I will say the mods and powers that be have been very kind and supportive, despite my initiative to be a stick in their "backside" on this issue. Unfortunately I was raised with the mentality that when "silly" rules don't work, you speak up and have them changed (Fight for your right, and all that...). It doesn't seem like that mentality sticks around here. It makes me question the ultimate goal of these forums. Are you out to create great forum communities, or is your primary focus to secure revenue? There exists a world where both goals can be reached in harmonious union.

Speaking as a webmaster, your advertisers don't own you, yet you owe your community everything. The moment you compromise the quality of your content in favor of your sponsors, you've abandoned the heart of your community, leaving it to fall apart.

Sorry to hear about your similar disagreement with the forum policy, dumped500. You're not alone in disagreeing with it, and you're probably not alone in choosing to bring your initiatives elsewhere. It's just very sad that it has to come to this when the "powers that be" should be using these comments as a positive incentive to restructure their policy.

I do not speak to provoke anger, but to inspire change.
Just to be sure we are all on the same page. Nobody is suggesting that content be censored unless it is offensive or becomes a personal attack. I believe most forums let the community go where it wishes to. If you want to sell product however to the community, you must pay for the privilege. I personally don't have any issues with that approach. There is always the option for a group of people to pool their own money and create their own forum, free of any policies, paid advertising or vendor members and allow anyone to sell anything they wish. Kind of like a cooperative. Anybody in (and have their checkbook handy)?
 

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Personal attacks are great. You get to know the person on a personal level, especially their weaknesses. I like the part where they curl up in a ball and cry in the corner.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Dumped, I have actually followed your posts on the Madness forum on the TWM shifter tests and the other items you offered for sale. Lots of great photos and updates from you as well as support from that forum, which are actually still active threads. They all are still up as of today. One of the last responses I read on the forum from Madness to your TWM testing posts was "Please keep us updated. We spoke with TWM and made arrangements to offer their kit once it is fully developed and available. It is good to have options and our goal is to offer them all..." I probably missed something, but they seemed pretty supportive of your efforts to me. Just as a different perspective, I believe most forums charge vendors a fee to participate and offer products for sale to the community, just like advertisers in a magazine or newspaper. The fee helps to pay the costs of the forum for the guys like me who join for free. I can understand why they won't let a guy like me offer products for sale on the forum and compete against the vendors who pay for the privilege. Particularly if I offer the same product for sale. As Tweak stated, most if not all forums have the same policy. The solution may have been as easy as just signing up as a vendor, but in any case, we all have the right to participate wherever we choose, or not. In any case, just offering one guys opinion.
The Main thread is still up yes. The thread that I created to revive and to update everyone on pricing and availability was deleted.
Again, I am not a vendor nor am I trying to sell a product. I am a normal fiat owner who has the test unit in my car for TWM, I am simply making informative posts and keeping everyone up to date on this product in development.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Just to be sure we are all on the same page. Nobody is suggesting that content be censored unless it is offensive or becomes a personal attack. I believe most forums let the community go where it wishes to. If you want to sell product however to the community, you must pay for the privilege. I personally don't have any issues with that approach. There is always the option for a group of people to pool their own money and create their own forum, free of any policies, paid advertising or vendor members and allow anyone to sell anything they wish. Kind of like a cooperative. Anybody in (and have their checkbook handy)?
I am sorry but I really do not agree with your argument here, you are basically saying " If you don't like it there's the door " "create your own forum"
Then if that is your mentality, what is the point of this or any other forums being existent?

Forums have rules, most of them are followed, but when someone does not break to rule and is prosecuted as if they did with zero warning or proper consulting then this is wrong.

Also being a forum owner in the past I can tell you that it does not cost that much to run it, and with the amount of sponsors and lifetime members that this forum already has, they are not hurting.

Also my rant is not for this forum, it is against another forum.
 

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Forums are not non-profit; they are revenue generators for the Owner. Nobody likes their income messed with. 500Madness is a Vendor. their forum is just a guise for them advertising their products. I stopped viewing their forum when i realized this.
 

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Just to be sure we are all on the same page. Nobody is suggesting that content be censored unless it is offensive or becomes a personal attack. I believe most forums let the community go where it wishes to. If you want to sell product however to the community, you must pay for the privilege. I personally don't have any issues with that approach. There is always the option for a group of people to pool their own money and create their own forum, free of any policies, paid advertising or vendor members and allow anyone to sell anything they wish. Kind of like a cooperative. Anybody in (and have their checkbook handy)?
Without community members, the ads and sponsors are advertising to no one. What I'm asking is for reasonable compromise. Shutting down build or prototype install threads because the member who posted it isn't signed up as vendors is ridiculous. You make it sound like managing a forum is an undertaking that requires such massive resources and funding that it's entirely out of our reach. I've run a website with a successful forum that lasted for over five years. In that time, I banned no one because everyone got along of their own free will, and when people had an argument I let them settle it out like responsible adults, even when they chose to insult each other (GASP! What a concept!). The community grew massive. Costs were self-sustained and I was pulling in reasonable enough revenue from the google ads alone to cover all my costs and then some. My goal was to create one of the best forum communities for my website focus at the time, and I succeeded.

Don't challenge us to move further away from this site, many people are already doing it.

The administration here isn't stupid. They know the difference between someone building something out of their garage and a legitimate vendor. They have the ability to discern a profit scheme from someone trying to garnish support for a group buy or a home-brew project. There is a reasonable difference. It must be acknowledged. Indefinite moderation to adhere to strict policies is inefficient when it sacrifices community morale in the process, even when forum revenue is the ideal.

Make your money (and all the best success in making lots of it), but keep your customers satisfied (the forum members, not your advertisers).

I'm sure the original person(s) who imagined this community of forums into existence originally did so because they shared the same passions for vehicle ownership and modification as we do. Content and quality first. Revenue second. They must not sacrifice this ideal, and if they have, they've already lost their way.
 

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I like this forum, it hasn't offended my sensibilities yet, and yes Fiated is right - most all forums are for personal gain to someone at some level. Other than the love of the particular topic, or the interest of sharing their own knowledge and advice, it is a revenue source for them.

The forum owner/originator is the one who stuck their neck out and invested the time and cash to start it up, and have to make the distinction between what they are willing to allow on their dime (free membership, product discussions), and what they want to take a cut on (lifetime memberships, vendor advertizing).

I think the more successful forums allow for a more liberal view toward posting by non paying members and potential vendors (of which I am both)

But nobody gets rich giving away the farm, so it's a common practice on the large forum boards that once a strong following is in place, the forum owner starts to add restrictions to posting for free (memberships, picture bandwith limits, mandatory vendor contributions), or they sell the board for a nice profit based on it's membership traffic and advertizing potential.
 

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I see their forum as a place where I can talk about products they offer, which is expected . You don't go to a tmobile store and talk about the AT&T iPhone :p


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