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Discussion Starter #1
If it seems like you might have lost some range, it might just be the % gauge needing calibration (by taking it to zero*).

The car stops charging when its own gauge shows 100%, & reportedly stops driving VERY shortly after it shows 0%. So if that gauge is out of calibration, it could reduce your range by cutting off charging before it's really done. It could also stop the car before the battery really is too low:

When my car showed 100%, OBD read only 95%. (gauge 5% HIGH)
When it showed 29%, OBD read 34%. (gauge 5% LOW)
When it showed 11%, OBD read 18%. (gauge 7% low)

It seems that the lower I go, the further the % gauge shows below the real level. I could have 8% left when the car stops because the gauge shows zero!

I might regain the full potential range if I re-calibrate the gauge by taking it to 0%*.

I was tempted to do so but I rarely drive even half that far, however if you do, I recommend giving it a shot. It would be nice if you could report if there's any noticeable difference.

* Apparently it's best to then L2 charge non-stop til it's done.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It seems to require going BELOW 0%*. Drive to 0% near a charger, then park by it & turn on everything.

2-day 12V disconnect does NOT seem to work for THIS. I just did a 48-hr 12V disconnect & my car's % gauge still reads lower than OBD, which still says "SOC calibration in progress".

*Someone reported that going to 0% made no difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I just realized how to know when to stop discharging: When OBD suddenly drops from 14V to 12V (or at least when the 12V warning comes on):


When parked with the key on, everything is running off the DC converter that keeps the 12V batt charged off the HV batt.

At some point the HV will stop supplying 12V power, so we're no longer draining it. That's when OBD suddenly drops from 14V to 12V.

For those without an OBD reader I wonder if disconnecting the12V would work. For sure we should be able to stop when we see this (pic by Warriors2727?):
E7350FDB-7DC1-49DF-9363-8A14CA5646F4.jpeg
 

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I tried to do this today. At 0 percent the car just turned off the heating and heated seats. I've left the fan on (it still was working), also the rear window heater and all the lights. Left like that for an hour, nothing changed (the voltage at 12 V battery was 14.6 V, so the HV was still supplying the charge). Then did some driving back and forth, nothing changed. So after another hour, I just started charging as usual. We'll see how many kWh I'll squeeze in.

For the moment, I can tell that at 0 km/miles the car is still driveable in low-power mode. Not sure for how long though.
 

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I tried to do this today. At 0 percent the car just turned off the heating and heated seats. I've left the fan on (it still was working), also the rear window heater and all the lights. Left like that for an hour, nothing changed (the voltage at 12 V battery was 14.6 V, so the HV was still supplying the charge). Then did some driving back and forth, nothing changed. So after another hour, I just started charging as usual. We'll see how many kWh I'll squeeze in.

For the moment, I can tell that at 0 km/miles the car is still driveable in low-power mode. Not sure for how long though.
Pretty much what I did. Left cabin fan on high and headlights on for an extra 1/2 hour.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
With different results reported by going "only" to 0%, I have a feeling that to be successful, this procedure probably requires going to zero on the OBD, or even "absolute zero" (12V warning).

As soon as the gauge thinks it's at 4.9999% it will say 0. Since I use about 1%/mile in normal city driving averaging over 20mph, that would be about 1/2 mile. Probably much further around a parking lot with nearly no aero drag.

If the reason the rear defrost still works is for driving safety, then if you put the heater in defrost mode most likely its power-draining heater also works.

Also for driving safety, the power-draining A/C compressor should be activated by the humidity sensor, if you plug it back in & maybe even mist it with a pump-spray on "fine".
 

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I certainly hope that the Fiat/Bosch engineers thought of everything when it comes to drawing the HV pack down as far as possible by running all the accessories over a length of time. As far as I know, I have never heard of anyone actually running the accessories so long that the HV finally gave up and turned the DC to DC converter off. It would suck big time if there was some sort of software bug where the HV pack would draw down so far that it would brick and not be able to be recharged again (like what happens to the cars that get shipped overseas to Europe).
 

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I certainly hope that the Fiat/Bosch engineers thought of everything
Absolutely not. They will not sweat the details for a low production, California compliance car. The lead Bosch engineer for 500e development was on the (now defunct) Google+ 500e forum and discussed about things they did not do.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have never heard of anyone actually running the accessories so long that the HV finally gave up and turned the DC to DC converter off.
Thanks for making me check!* It seems to be exactly what happens, as shown in #4 pic. Drove to 0%, parked with everything turned on, 2 1/4 hours later the 12V warning indicates that the HV had stopped charging the 12V. In fact probably stopped a bit earlier, in order for the accessories to drain it below 12V, so that would show a bit earlier on OBD.

The further your % gauge is out of calibration, the longer it will take, & vice-versa.
He gained about 19%. Mine reads about 8% below OBD so it would likely take about an hour.

*
 

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Absolutely not. They will not sweat the details for a low production, California compliance car. The lead Bosch engineer for 500e development was on the (now defunct) Google+ 500e forum and discussed about things they did not do.
Hey rkw,
Do you remember any of the things he mentioned they did not do? Things we should be aware of?
Thanks
 

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Do you remember any of the things he mentioned they did not do? Things we should be aware of?
He was critical of how firmware was implemented by Fiat, that made it operate with a small margin of error and fragile for handling unexpected conditions. He said that he warned Fiat but they wouldn't do anything about it. One thing he recommended was to make sure that the car has completely shut down before plugging in the charger, otherwise a part of the firmware may keep running and potentially drain the 12V battery. Make sure that you hear the clunk of the main breaker, and see that the dash display has turned off before plugging in.

The main point I wanted to make is that when people are asking why they didn't do this or that, or some part of it could have been done better, remember that the 500e was a low production, compliance car created to meet California's requirement to sell a zero emissions vehicle. Sergio Marchionne didn't even want to build it, and the 500e didn't receive the full development or testing cycle that would go into a car sold nationwide or worldwide. It was pushed out as soon as it was "good enough" and further development was ended. It is remarkable that it turned out as well and popular as it did. As a point of reference, other compliance cars include Chevrolet Spark EV, Ford Focus EV, Honda Fit EV and Toyota RAV4 EV. None of them developed a real fanbase like the 500e.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
THANKS RKW!

I, too, have marveled at how great my 07/2013 is, as a first-year, first production run, first FCA electric. The MUCH simpler motor probably helps a lot, & may be why all those cars you list seem to be working okay too.

I have very often plugged in before the "clunk", many times without even shutting off the key :oops:, & never had any issues. I'm not ALL that concerned about an easily-jumpstarted, easily-replaced 12V batt, but I'll still be more careful now.

Can you recall any other recommendations?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
What do you people think about this crazy idea: For some strange reason it seems like the brakes (parking OR pedal) don't deactivate the motor, so what about draining the HV battery by activating both brakes, putting it in D, & pressing a couple millimeters on the accelerator?
 

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What do you people think about this crazy idea: For some strange reason it seems like the brakes (parking OR pedal) don't deactivate the motor, so what about draining the HV battery by activating both brakes, putting it in D, & pressing a couple millimeters on the accelerator?
I think I would not want to risk it. I'd rather drive around the block until it is dead and risk having to push a bit. But that is just me. Someone with a better understanding of motors and controllers will have a better understanding of the risks involved.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It must be okay to at least put it in Drive, or better yet reverse (to add those lights to the drain). That's got to burn more power than Park.
 

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It must be okay to at least put it in Drive, or better yet reverse (to add those lights to the drain). That's got to burn more power than Park.
If you have your foot on the brake, and you're not on a hill, is there any power going to the motor when in drive or reverse? I know the pedestrian warning comes on in drive or reverse and the brake lights come on (and reverse lights for reverse), but does the motor actually draw more power? I'm thinking it doesn't - unless you press on the accelerator like you originally suggested. For short periods it is probably fine, but not sure about extended periods sufficient enough to drain the battery.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I had thought that the creep function must have to provide current to the motor, but on AlfaOBD with only the brake pedal pressed it shows 1.2 Amps* in either N or D.

In R it shows 1.3A, probably from adding its lights to the brakelights.

I pressed the accellerator a bit in D & R & it spiked up to 3A.

* "HV Battery Current Sensor 1 Hall, A" with DRLs on.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Creep mode engages before wheel movement. On a flat surface with no movement, creep starts before you even fully release the brakes.
 
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