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Upgrading battery for 500e

59263 Views 111 Replies 28 Participants Last post by  mrogers
Hello,

I love my fiat 500e, but the range I get is closer to 70/75 miles than anything else advertised. It's fine but I always feels that I'm missing the extra 30 or 40 miles that would allow me move around more. Seeing many other EV going 120 or even 250 miles makes me really wish I could have the same kind of range. Looking around I saw that the 63Ah cells could be swapped with up to 120Ah cells (from Samsung apparently) as the volume is similar. I'm sure this is not as simple as it looks but was wondering if people had looked into this and found ways to increase the overall range of the car.

thanks
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Kiesling is of course correct that our migrating % gauges have no effect on actual mi/kWh. My response was to twinturboz' 100 mile range, but now I'm wondering about the car's mi/kWh display. I wonder how the car calculates mi/kWh. If it goes by how many percent is used per mile, then it could be just as (in)accurate as the % gauge.

If so, then both of twinturboz' numbers would read higher than cars with more than his tiny 2% gauge discrepancy (I assume that's at the low end, since the middle & top are much different from that on mine).

Also, speed & 1-way hills are two of the 3 biggest factors for range, so it's definitely an advantage to have even a very slight decline on the way to work, & very slightly slower speed on the way home.

In auto maintenance training I was taught that toe alignment setting is intended to yield zero toe while driving. A very slight toe-in setting at rest is used if needed to prevent toe-out. It compensates for flex of the suspension components under the load of tire's rolling resistance & slight brake pad grazing pushing the wheels aft.

Either way, after driving a couple thousand miles even with very slightly non-zero toe-at-speed, you can usually feel slight "feathering" of the tread: Hold your hand flat as if making a hand-print, & slide it side-to-side across the top of the tire. If you feel even a very slight difference between sliding in & sliding out, your tires are not running at zero toe while driving, regardless of how they are at rest.
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Kiesling is of course correct that our migrating % gauges have no effect on actual mi/kWh. My response was to twinturboz' 100 mile range, but now I'm wondering about the car's mi/kWh display. I wonder how the car calculates mi/kWh. If it goes by how many percent is used per mile, then it could be just as (in)accurate as the % gauge.

If so, then both of twinturboz' numbers would read higher than cars with more than his tiny 2% gauge discrepancy (I assume that's at the low end, since the middle & top are much different from that on mine).

Also, speed & 1-way hills are two of the 3 biggest factors for range, so it's definitely an advantage to have even a very slight decline on the way to work, & very slightly slower speed on the way home.

In auto maintenance training I was taught that toe alignment setting is intended to yield zero toe while driving. A very slight toe-in setting at rest is used if needed to prevent toe-out. It compensates for flex of the suspension components under the load of tire's rolling resistance & slight brake pad grazing pushing the wheels aft.

Either way, after driving a couple thousand miles even with very slightly non-zero toe-at-speed, you can usually feel slight "feathering" of the tread: Hold your hand flat as if making a hand-print, & slide it side-to-side across the top of the tire. If you feel even a very slight difference between sliding in & sliding out, your tires are not running at zero toe while driving, regardless of how they are at rest.
my tires are worn completely even and flat no feathering at all, although the very outer edge rubber is a lil scruffy from all the hard turns. 😁 as for the range it’s pretty much 1% for every mile although the first 10 miles don’t quite go that way, the first 10 miles only eats up 8% then it’s linear 1 mile per %.
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So the high range is from slight downhill to work, slightly lower speed going home, AND the final huge range factor is temperature, for which coastal southern California is virtually ideal.
So the high range is from slight downhill to work, slightly lower speed going home, AND the final huge range factor is temperature, for which coastal southern California is virtually ideal.
One negative tho, so on a typical evening up 605 north bound you’re going against headwinds anywhere from 8mph to sometimes 20mph+ And when you’re doing 60-70mph it’s not exactly working out for you, despite this setback the variable is 2% of battery once I get home, this is from the fact it’s warmer in the afternoon so battery is happier and generally slower driving. The headwinds is the major setback aside from the ever so slightly hill.
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& one positive tho, is the 2" lowering which seems to really help the aerodynamics (airspeed, including wind).
Hi everybody, I have a 500e and the range has diminished significantly. Has anyone figured out the 94Ah or 120Ah upgrade? I am willing to do the upgrade if it works. My car is at the dealer right now trying to fight for a warranty repair but my hopes are not high. If anybody knows how to get Fiat to care about fixing these cars please tell us.
Hi everybody, I have a 500e and the range has diminished significantly. Has anyone figured out the 94Ah or 120Ah upgrade? I am willing to do the upgrade if it works. My car is at the dealer right now trying to fight for a warranty repair but my hopes are not high. If anybody knows how to get Fiat to care about fixing these cars please tell us.

What year, how many miles, what charging ethic, how often is it driven vs how often does it sit at 100% charge? Etc. Curiosity kills me.
...range has diminished significantly...
I would drive it to a fairly low % & then compare its known-inaccurate % gauge to OBD %, using my $17 eBay ELM327 KONNWEI KW902 OBD reader & free AlfaOBD "demo" app.

If you only have an iPhone/iPad, try a laptop/tablet, or ask your friends if they have an old Android, or get one for $15 on Amazon. No service needed, just download the app on WiFi.

If the gauge reads significantly lower than OBD, that's the issue, & here's the fix:
Regain Lost Range for Free!
Chiming in, my 17’ 500e now has 55k miles and still poking 95~ miles a charge, it’s lost a little bit but hard to say since weather has been colder and dark so my lights are constantly in use coming and going from work. Still showing a avg 5.2-5.8 mi/kw
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I wonder why there isn’t mention of using a bonus battery pack that feeds the main pack, using different cells. The working range of our pack is 300-400v so if you tied in a smaller (or bigger) pack of any V within that range, it would hold the main pack up in use. Then charge it using a separate charger and disconnect with relay or physical plug. This would be a much more economical upgrade that doesn’t require tossing the stock pack.
Other issues around range aside,
No, no one has done the 94ah or 120ah swap.
There is no good reliable source for these cells new unfortunately.
They are also not the same exact size. They are slightly taller.
They also weigh a bit more, which would change the suspension.

It's not impossible, but it is not easy and no one has done it. At least, no one has done it and documented the process online.
I like the additional battery idea. Sounds like a business opportunity......
There's a lot to learn from the 1st generation nissan leaf modification community. There's so, so many mods and experiments going on with those cars- I think the 500e deserves the same spotlight.

My pipedream is to slap the rear drivetrain/suspension of a bmw i3 into my 500e to make it AWD with a 2" overall lift with aggressive tires, tear the battery pack apart and replace the cell setup with something more energy dense, remove the factory inverter/charge controlling units and go custom, turn this sucker into a fun EV side by side! Why? Because the places that the 500e has taken us on the dirt roads in the mountains and hills has opened my mind to it.
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Just chiming in here to say that I'm also interested in a path to a DIY battery upgrade. My 2013 at 78K miles is hovering somewhere around a 70 mile range in warm weather, which is still enough day to day, but I'm looking ahead to when the range drops more, or the pack fails totally due to cell failures. At my last check, the cell voltages looked fairly even, so I have no immediate concerns, but more range than stock would make the vehicle more versatile.
around a 70 mile range in warm weather... the cell voltages looked fairly even
If you've checked cell voltages you must have OBD. So if you're basing range on how far you could drive before the car's gauge says 0%, please compare the gauge to OBD % when the gauge is low. It seems like most users who report what you're experiencing just have a gauge that reads low near the bottom end:

Regain Lost Range for Free!
I checked this morning and at 16% indicated the BPCM is reporting 21%, so there is more of a difference than there could be, but not far off. A 3-5% difference is what I've seen on other 500e's at 0% that I've worked with. I've read that post, but considering the small difference I'm not willing to run the pack completely down and risk cell damage at this point just to see a slightly higher number, especially since I'm completely out of warranty now. I will definitely try it before doing anything drastic like replacing or rebuilding the pack, if there is a good solution and source of cells found that is.
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Thanks for the reply. I just realized the other big difference from most other similar user reports: This car is at much higher mileage, so it's still under 1.4% loss per 10,000 miles, compared to the updated EPA spec (although many of us get more than that spec).

It would be nice to know:
  • The range the car used to get when driven the same as it is now.
  • Mi/kWh on a trip gauge, ideally one showing a few hundred miles.
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I bought the vehicle at 36000 miles, and at the time I know I was getting the advertised range, more or less. I had driven it over 90 miles on a charge once or twice at that time in near perfect conditions. I've never kept a log with this vehicle, so I have no concrete evidence to show the range loss trend, but I started noticing about a year ago that I had less charge remaining than I did before. Most days I drive the same route so I'm used to seeing a certain remainder.

Do keep in mind that I'm in Michigan, so winter range has always been bad, but this year I've seen consumption as bad as needing 70% charge to go 30 miles at 0F. That's obviously an extreme example, but lately around 50F I'm using 80% to do 55 miles.

I haven't reset the trip meters in at least 9 months, and trip B is currently indicating 4.1 mi/kWh, which will be including the entirety of winter. I've reset the trip A and will watch it for a week.

By the way, does the mi/kWh reading just measure motor usage, or does it also include HVAC, battery heater, EPS, or any of the rest of the power draws?
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I bought the vehicle at 36000 miles, and at the time I know I was getting the advertised range, more or less. I had driven it over 90 miles on a charge once or twice at that time in near perfect conditions. I've never kept a log with this vehicle, so I have no concrete evidence to show the range loss trend, but I started noticing about a year ago that I had less charge remaining than I did before. Most days I drive the same route so I'm used to seeing a certain remainder.

Do keep in mind that I'm in Michigan, so winter range has always been bad, but this year I've seen consumption as bad as needing 70% charge to go 30 miles at 0F. That's obviously an extreme example, but lately around 50F I'm using 80% to do 55 miles.

I haven't reset the trip meters in at least 9 months, and trip B is currently indicating 4.1 mi/kWh, which will be including the entirety of winter. I've reset the trip A and will watch it for a week.

By the way, does the mi/kWh reading just measure motor usage, or does it also include HVAC, battery heater, EPS, or any of the rest of the power draws?
I'm pretty sure it measures power taken out of the battery and divides that into the miles driven. So it takes into account all the power draws.
I wonder if at least part of the issue is simply driving a bit harder:
  • I have to drive my own 2013 a bit harder to get only 4.1mi/kWh. My long-term trip gauge shows a whopping 15% better, at 4.7mi/kWh. But it's pretty easy to get it down: If there's no traffic & I rush, my standard grocery-store run takes TWICE as many kWh as when there's traffic.
  • My friend initially had range anxiety, so she'd watch the % carefully on her normal route home: 30% left at 20 miles away...15% left at 10 miles away, etc. What she ended up learning is that she could drive faster & still make it. A few times she hit 0% when she arrived!
Also, since the gauge reads 5% low near the bottom, "using 80%" is really only using 75%. 55 miles divided by 75% is 73 miles total range. That's 90% of the 77mi "advertised range" on the highway (in order to get only 4.1mi/kWh).

10% loss in 78,000 miles is only 1.3% loss per 10,000 miles.
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