[scorpion_power]

I'm curious to see what people think about an Abarth cost
Please vote for the price you think is closest to what the MSRP is going to be
Thanks

 

[gotheframe]

I meant @ $24k as thats the conversion rate from the UK.

 

[andyandrews]

I voted 26K but I wanted to say 25K. About the same as a Clubman S. You could get a Lotus Elise, comes with a fire extinguisher.

 

[scorpion_power]

How can 60 people look at this thread and only 5 of them vote?
This really surprises me...

 

[scorpion_power]

It's nice to see the few people who have voted have not been thinking hi 20's - low 30's

 

[tommy]

Well, judging by current Abarth options, my guess is that there will be a bottom feeder Abarth, and a higher-end version, which I do think will probably be around a Works Mini in the low 30s, or so. So that wasy my logic for voting for 28k.

 

[scorpion_power]

Interesting, I never thought about say an Abarth and an Abarth SS coming, that would be cool

 

[kzod]

They are going to decimate Mini on price. I'd expect the Abarth to be priced similarly to the Cabrio, so about a $3,000 premium up to a potential $5000, but not a cent more than that with all the trimmings. So it would max out under $25k guaranteed.

Unfortunately, no Abarth or SS for us. For good or bad we're just6 getting the biggest engine they could shoehorn in there which will have 170hp. As I just said in another thread, I personally think that would be overkill for us for enjoyed (semi-legal) street driving. Might be a little too much power to keep the pedal hammered too long without getting pulled over.

 

[AngryCorgi]

My guess: $21,500 + 500 destination (following their $2k upgrade-per-flavor methodology)

If it's base price is over $23,500 + 500 destination, they'll have a hard time selling it, as they'll be competing directly with the GTI and Cooper S. I really don't think they want to do that. And opting not to go with a more sophisticated multi-link rear and recycling a ka sub-structure means they don't have to compete at the same price point to make the same kind of per-unit profit margin that Mini and VW enjoy.

 

[777joee]

My guess: $21,500 + 500 destination (following their $2k upgrade-per-flavor methodology)

If it's base price is over $23,500 + 500 destination, they'll have a hard time selling it, as they'll be competing directly with the GTI and Cooper S. I really don't think they want to do that. And opting not to go with a more sophisticated multi-link rear and recycling a ka sub-structure means they don't have to compete at the same price point to make the same kind of per-unit profit margin that Mini and VW enjoy.

Have you priced a Cooper S or a GTI lately?

Local to me the Cooper S in inventory runs $25,900 to $29,500 or a Cooper Works at $35,500

GTI Base is $25,300 to $26,100 with the top Autobahn at $31K+

If the Abarth is around $28,500K I'm a buyer..........it has to handle better than the Prima and it's on rails stock.

 

[AngryCorgi]

Have you priced a Cooper S or a GTI lately?

Local to me the Cooper S in inventory runs $25,900 to $29,500 or a Cooper Works at $35,500

GTI Base is $25,300 to $26,100 with the top Autobahn at $31K+

If the Abarth is around $28,500K I'm a buyer..........it has to handle better than the Prima and it's on rails stock.

Base MSRP + destination on a Cooper S = $24,200
Base MSRP + destination on a GTI = $24,465

I'm not talking about optioned prices, I'm talking base MSRP. If an Abarth's base MSRP is at or above $24k, it will have to compete with the larger, faster, better-handling competition. There is no logical reason for the base MSRP to be anywhere near $24k. Based on the Abarth 500 overseas, the cost to manufacture the Abarth model will not come close to demanding more than a $4k premium over the sport model. That $4k premium translates to a ~$22k base MSRP.

While the Abarth we get, as rumored, might be 170hp vs 135hp (EU base variant), I would bet the interior/exterior trim will not be an improvement, nor will the suspension. The only reason they might launch a more powerful engine/beefier tranny is to compete in the US market...the same reason why the 1.4 is the base US engine.

I'm not saying any of this to slight the future Abarth model, on the contrary I'm excited about it. But I'm not so excited as to lose sight of what the market value of the vehicle is and what it will need to do to compete.

 

[gotheframe]

I was surprised at the conversion when I checked on the UK Abarth (£15K) ~ $24K. That would put it right at the Cooper S territory; I hoped it to be less. But, converting the UK Cooper S (£18K) ~ $28K.

Fiat has already put the premium Lounge in base Cooper territory ($20K). Unless there is a turbo non-Abarth model, I could certainly see the entry level Abarth still running $24k.

Really, the Pop should be $14K, the Sport $16K, and the Lounge $17,500. Options should be opened up cross models and the Abarth should come at or below $20K. But, I don't work in marketing or work at Fiat.

 

[AngryCorgi]

Fiat has already put the premium Lounge in base Cooper territory ($20K). Unless there is a turbo non-Abarth model, I could certainly see the entry level Abarth still running $24k.

The issue with saying the Abarth is a step up from the Lounge is that its really a step up from the Sport. They are not evolving the Lounge model into the Abarth model. They are evolving the Sport model.

Here's a list of unique features to explain this:

*Auto A/C vs Standard A/C - $150 to Lounge
*Premium Seats (leather opt) vs Sport Seats - no monetary advantage
*15" setup vs 16" setup - $250 to Sport
*6-Speed Auto vs 5-speed Manual - $1000 to Lounge
*Body kit vs Sport Body kit (w/ spoiler) - $100 to Sport
*Steering wheel vs Sport wheel - $50 to Sport
*Black vs Red Calipers - no monetary advantage
*Standard Susp vs Sport Susp - $250 to Sport
*Alarm System - $150 to Lounge
*Chrome Accents - $50 to Lounge
*Fixed Glass Roof - $500 to Lounge
*Sirius Radio - $150 to Lounge

The values are approximations of value of one feauture over a like feature on the same model (in terms of construction cost). Caliper paint (whether black or red) equals out as do the seat quality (they are about the same, though the Lounge allows a leather upgrade) and the different body kits. I might give the Sport $100 for the spoiler, just to be nice. Lets call it $2000 vs $650. So you pay a $2000 difference for $1350 worth of difference + the ability to get into some leather ($650 + cost is a huge premium for that right, if you ask me). At any rate, most of the cost is the glass roof and transmission here. That will NOT be standard on the Abarth, I can assure you.

So think of the Abarth as a sub-$4k upgrade on the Sport. If they follow the trend of the EU 500, then there won't be a real difference in the interior except the scorpion on the steering wheel and slightly sportier seats. The shocks/springs might be a tad more aggressive, but not much and it won't be an expensive factory difference. You and I can buy a complete turbo kit for a small engine (i.e. miata or such) for less than $3k new. The factory is only looking at little more than half that for parts/developmental costs (max $1750).

Ya'll see where I'm going with this?

 

[AngryCorgi]

Now if they stick the multi-link rear in the US Abarth (from the Rally-Spec 500 R3T), then I'm expecting a $24-26k price tag as base. But I seriously doubt they opt for the more sophisticated rear end.

 

[777joee]

Now if they stick the multi-link rear in the US Abarth (from the Rally-Spec 500 R3T), then I'm expecting a $24-26k price tag as base. But I seriously doubt they opt for the more sophisticated rear end.

One thing comes to mind....the Primas used the Sport for the base. $1500 option included the auto air, sirius, bose, 16' wheels red calipers, sport seats, etc. Why not use the Sport for the base and add the spolier kit with the good raidio and fixed glass or sunroof.

Done deal at about $21 to $22K

I like your logic.......

 

[AngryCorgi]

One thing comes to mind....the Primas used the Sport for the base. $1500 option included the auto air, sirius, bose, 16' wheels red calipers, sport seats, etc. Why not use the Sport for the base and add the spolier kit with the good raidio and fixed glass or sunroof.

Done deal at about $21 to $22K

I like your logic.......

OOC: How much did/do the Primas cost (sticker)?

 

[gotheframe]

I just don't see the Abarth treatment hitting $22K with anywhere from 35-70 more hp (a different motor) and a different options treatment. I think the Sport will have available Abarth options (logos, minor tuning upgrades, etc). The exclusivity adds a price of its own, yet unknown.

How was the Prima edition different from the Sport other than being the initial (numbered) release model - pricing/options?

 

[AngryCorgi]

I just don't see the Abarth treatment hitting $22K with anywhere from 35-70 more hp (a different motor) and a different options treatment.

From the information I've been able to scrounge up, the 1.4T and the 1.4 are practically identical (I've found no information regarding strengthened bearings or a unique forged crank in the turbo variant) and all data suggests they are both operating at 10.8:1 compression ratio (which seems quite high for a forced-air engine). The variance, of course, is the Garrett or IMI turbo and probably a small air-to-air intercooler, along with a different computer control protocol and larger injectors. This is of course based on the EU Abarth 500 (135bhp).

The information I'm getting may be wrong or incomplete, since you would think they would use slightly lower-compression pistons for the engine. Then again, the Mini Cooper S has a 10.5:1 compression ratio, so there are people running turbos on high-compression cars (the JCW drops that # to 10.0:1 and runs higher pressure). I've seen that the Punto version of the turbo'd 1.4 runs at 9.8:1, so who knows what a 170hp US variant is running. Either way, its not more costly to use a cupped piston rather than a standard piston, and its not costly to reinforce the block skirt either.

Its also possible that the 1.4 FIRE is over-designed and manufactured to withstand a terrible beating, so there is no need to alter its configuration when modestly boosting it...though that's a LONG shot!

 

[AngryCorgi]

Get this: If you convert the price of an Abarth 500 Esseesse from Australian or New Zealand prices, its US$32k. If you convert the UK Abarth 500 + Esseesse kit you get US$27k. If you remove the VAT and convert the normal Abarth 500 from UK its US$19k.

So it'll fall somewhere between $19k and $32k in the USA.

The 165bhp Abarth Punto Evo is ~ $22k in US Dollars...I'm betting we wind up right around there.

 

[AngryCorgi]

BTW, I dunno about the whole external flashing-light bit when pushing the ESP. Why do I need to notify everyone how hard my car's working?