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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Why should new car problems be justified by new owners? Say what Jack!?

  1. Ongoing door rattles and rear hatch.
  2. Overflow of A/C coolant issues into the car cabin.
  3. Fix It Again Tony Post...about a car that starts --- sometimes.
  4. Computer control problems.
  5. Engine lights randomly coming on.
  6. Clunking in the front end.
  7. Confidence issues with many new owners.
I've been on this forum now for a few weeks. I test drove a new Fiat (manual & Automatic). Nice drive - seemingly nice car. But after reading so many posts about... And many of the posts state from the new owners, "I just love this car, even though there's annoying issues going on, who cares, I love it!" Say what?

Well that's nice, but how in the heck can a car owner, (long term) justify owning a car with issues that would otherwise not be tolerated by a car that's been in place for a long while, like a Honda, Toyota, Ford, or Chevy? It isn't logical! I realize the zeal, fun and craziness that goes with buying a new cool quasi-sports car like the Fiat - but come on folks. Do you really think spending upwards of $20,000 and then accepting these issues is okay to do? Sure the dealership can stumble through and try and fix the issues/problems. But a lot of posts state that the dealerships only half-fixed the issues; not much better than someone who doesn't know anything about the car, and attempts to fix the problem with zero skills.


Look, I'm no gloomy-gus about cars - heck I own a legendary MGB - and it had so many stereo-types in its day - (bad ones) that I should talk. But that car eventually got all the bugs worked out. My Toyota on the other hand is a fully mature design - unlike the Fiat. I just hope this little car makes it folks, because it is a gorgeous little car. Unfortunately, the engine's not in the skin of the cars metal - it is beneath what counts - (the powertrain) the electrical system, the component quality of the alternator, radiator, hoses, bolts, nuts, connectors, etc.

I will observe and hope this car makes it, I really do -- then maybe someday, I'll get one once the intial bugs are worked out. I simply don't want to be a 'tester' when I've put my money down. Good luck and drive safe everyone. :D
 

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You also need to account that the vocal minority speaks for, well, the vocal minority.

Yes, there are some problems to be addressed for some cars. If I read every car forum pertaining to any car, I'd be scared from buying it.

There were 11 documented engines falling out of Mazdaspeed 3s on forums back in 2007. Lots of CELs due to failed intake manifold servos. Lots of over sooty tail pipes and hard cold starts.

Have any of you outside of the mazdaspeed community forum heard of those issues?


People here have legitimate problems with their cars. No question. What percentage of all the cars sold do we represent?


BTW, I have no issues with my car.
 

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I have driven my 500 Lounge Convertible for almost 4,000 miles without a single issue and I believe most of the people on this forum have had the same experience so if you want a 500 as Niki say "Just Do It".
 

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I driven 4 other 500 sports, since February. None of them had rattles in the doors.
I got lucky, and got one with. Didn't see that rattle option on the window sticker. Love that 7 channel Bose. Thank G_D for it. Turn it up baby! It just a car, cars have issues.
I love this little car!
 

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You also need to account that the vocal minority speaks for, well, the vocal minority.

BTW, I have no issues with my car.
My car is fine too.

--- Vocal Minority :D

But, man, two out of 3 of my MINIs were lemons. Talk about a car with a following of martyrs...
 

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Why should new car problems be justified by new owners? Say what Jack!?

But how in the heck can a car owner, (long term) justify owning a car with issues that would otherwise not be tolerated by a car that's been in place for a long while, like a Honda, Toyota, Ford, or Chevy? It isn't logical!
I said it before, and I will say it again:

[Jedi Voice]
THIS IS NOT THE CAR YOU'RE LOOKING FOR!!
[/Jedi Voice]

This is NOT a Honda, a Toyota, or, Thank Goodness, a Chevy.

It is a Fiat.
It is Italian.
It will have quirks.
It will have small issues.
For some, it will have large issues.

For all that, you will have a car that is wonderful to look at.
It will make you smile when you drive it.
It will make you smile as you leave it in your parking spot and go about your day.
It will make you smile when you think about it at work.
It will make your wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend, date, family, and friends smile as they get a ride in it.

It will make you feel better about owning it even with all the issues it might ever have than any boring, Plane Jane Toyota or Honda, or Chevy ever will.

You have to love cars to want an Italian car.
If you don't, the experience will make you miserable.

And like I told you before, YOU really should consider something else if you want a small, inexpensive, flawless car that will take you from Point A to Point B with little to no chance of ever squeaking, rattling, having a CEL come on, or breaking down.

With that purchase, you get a plain vanilla car, with no character, no soul, bland looks, and utter dependency.

With an Italian car (or motorcycle, for that matter), you trade off perfection for character, and a wonderful driving (or riding) experience.

If you can't handle that trade off, look at something else.

I currently have 2 Ducati's in my garage (848 and 696), along with the Fiat, but have owned two other Ducati's (S2R1000 and M750) also. Not a single one has been flawless. One of which (696) had pretty much spent the entire summer at the dealer's, having everything with the fuel injection, wiring harness, and emissions systems replaced due to a persistent CEL that kept coming on. All new throttle bodies were the final solution, which made no sense to any of us, but that's what worked.

Once all that was fixed, its been a fantastic bike. Runs flawlessly. Creates huge smiles when ridden. Even bigger ones when admired in the garage.

That's the reason why you choose an Italian over anything else.

You don't seem to be getting that.
You admit to not even understanding how our logic fails us with these vehicles.

Well, guess what...

Logic has nothing to do with loving a vehicle.

As soon as you can get that concept, you might be able to consider one.

Until then, I wish you well with your Toyota's and your old MGB.

BC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
As a young Padawan Learner with the Lore of Fiat cars and their mystique, Jedi Master, you are right once more, forgive me - I will acquire the wisdom to know deep the pronouncements of the inner world of the Italian peculiarities. Thank you Fiat-Jedi Master.

In other words - makes sense what you said. When I drove the Fiat - it "hooked" me as it were FJM (instead of BC) I really like the way the car is designed - as I'm a European car lover. I've loved English cars since I was 16.

Every point you made about Italian cars --- reminds me very much about my MGB - and everyone has had or wants to own, (but thinks they have issues of some sort...but they don't -- once an MGB is sorted through) -- an MGB.

The Fiat I admit clearly - is a modern version in many ways, of an MGB. It has gorgeous lines, drives incredibly well and it a complete blast to drive for sure! Although I know the Fiat is way more comfortable and not a 'workout' to drive like hours and hours of driving my B, becomes. When I finish driving the B, I'm ready to be lazy and drive the Tacoma.

I think the Fiat might be a mix between the two. Style versus Utilitarian mediocrity. Fun with comfort and pizzazz, versus blending into the drone of cars that all look and seem the same - but with a sense of faith in a new manufacturer (Fiat) versus owning Toyota's for 20 years and believing that the level of build quality can be good - even though it isn't a Toyota - that being Fiat.

I'm ready for certain for a more maneuverable car - with way better gas mileage. I get maybe 21 MPH in my 4 Cylinder 2.7 L. Automatic 4 x 2 Tacoma. It is large compared to a small car - obviously - and I'm tired of driving my truck like a small car - as I'm a small car guy - by default.

So Fiat-Jedi Master - thank you, enjoyed reading your response, and I will keep a profile of wisdom and patience with the Fiat cars - salutations and good health.

:D

It is a Fiat.
It is Italian.
It will have quirks.
It will have small issues.
For some, it will have large issues.

For all that, you will have a car that is wonderful to look at.
It will make you smile when you drive it.
It will make you smile as you leave it in your parking spot and go about your day.
It will make you smile when you think about it at work.
It will make your wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend, date, family, and friends smile as they get a ride in it.

I said it before, and I will say it again:

[Jedi Voice]
THIS IS NOT THE CAR YOU'RE LOOKING FOR!!
[/Jedi Voice]

This is NOT a Honda, a Toyota, or, Thank Goodness, a Chevy.

It is a Fiat.
It is Italian.
It will have quirks.
It will have small issues.
For some, it will have large issues.

For all that, you will have a car that is wonderful to look at.
It will make you smile when you drive it.
It will make you smile as you leave it in your parking spot and go about your day.
It will make you smile when you think about it at work.
It will make your wife, husband, girlfriend, boyfriend, date, family, and friends smile as they get a ride in it.

It will make you feel better about owning it even with all the issues it might ever have than any boring, Plane Jane Toyota or Honda, or Chevy ever will.

You have to love cars to want an Italian car.
If you don't, the experience will make you miserable.

And like I told you before, YOU really should consider something else if you want a small, inexpensive, flawless car that will take you from Point A to Point B with little to no chance of ever squeaking, rattling, having a CEL come on, or breaking down.

With that purchase, you get a plain vanilla car, with no character, no soul, bland looks, and utter dependency.

With an Italian car (or motorcycle, for that matter), you trade off perfection for character, and a wonderful driving (or riding) experience.

If you can't handle that trade off, look at something else.

I currently have 2 Ducati's in my garage (848 and 696), along with the Fiat, but have owned two other Ducati's (S2R1000 and M750) also. Not a single one has been flawless. One of which (696) had pretty much spent the entire summer at the dealer's, having everything with the fuel injection, wiring harness, and emissions systems replaced due to a persistent CEL that kept coming on. All new throttle bodies were the final solution, which made no sense to any of us, but that's what worked.

Once all that was fixed, its been a fantastic bike. Runs flawlessly. Creates huge smiles when ridden. Even bigger ones when admired in the garage.

That's the reason why you choose an Italian over anything else.

You don't seem to be getting that.
You admit to not even understanding how our logic fails us with these vehicles.

Well, guess what...

Logic has nothing to do with loving a vehicle.

As soon as you can get that concept, you might be able to consider one.

Until then, I wish you well with your Toyota's and your old MGB.

BC.
 

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Simple really

I have had no issues with my Sport and love it!
Cars are made by people and machines.Both are not perfect. I have never seen a new car that is perfect.
 

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I agree with Mr Pickles...every car forum gets the unhappy posters. There is nothing wrong with that but you need to understand that. People who are happy just don't tend to speak up, only when you have a gripe. I've had my 500 for about 2 months and have 4,000 miles on it. I have a list with 3 things on it for the dealer when I bring it in for the first service. I don't remember another new car that I bought that had less issues on the punch list for the first visit. The way I drive I will have 100k in 3 years, I hope the current enjoyment/reliability lasts...I will see.
 

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I guess maybe that's Fiat. We love them in spite of the quirks. :)
 

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People who are happy just don't tend to speak up, only when you have a gripe.
There's a principle for that called the 4-11 Principle.
This is old and I don't know the new internet version ---- if you have a good experience, you'll tell 4 people about it; if you have a bad experience, you'll tell 11.
I learned this from the management at Joe Robbie Stadium while they trained us to do volunteer work for a Super Bowl. They were extremely satisfaction-oriented.
Imagine how that formula is magnified today by the magic of the interweb.
 

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As for the perfectly made car, the robots that produce the Hyundai Sonata produce as close to perfection as you can get. That is why it is the top selling sedan in the US. Of the problems noted on this forum, I believe one major issue to be poor inspection of the cars coming off the line and equally negligent dealer prep. To make a car with a few flaws is understandable, to deliver it to a customer is inexcusable.
 

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As for the perfectly made car, the robots that produce the Hyundai Sonata produce as close to perfection as you can get. That is why it is the top selling sedan in the US. Of the problems noted on this forum, I believe one major issue to be poor inspection of the cars coming off the line and equally negligent dealer prep. To make a car with a few flaws is understandable, to deliver it to a customer is inexcusable.
Retired Rev,
If the Hyundai Sonata is as close to perfection as one can get, we need to try harder! Many of these cars have had severe alignment issues coming out of the factory as documented by Car and Driver here

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q2/2011_hyundai_sonata_se_2.0t-long-term_road_test_intro


And I think its the top selling sedan because its cheap for its size, hyundai has been better with reliability and it looks good for a mid size sedan in the low 20's.

That said: I test drove one and I almost feel asleep at the wheel it was so boring to drive!
 

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Yeah that 10 year / 100k warranty is quite enticing, until you read the fine print.
Its powertrain only and that almost never goes on a car before 100k nowadays.

Fiat's warranty is actually better with the maintenance and wear items!
 

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Mechanical issues are not "quirks"

Quirk is such a doublespeak way of passively saying the brand is having some mechanical issues. Lets call them what they are, mechanical/electrical or build quality issues, but don't call them quirks. A quirk would be the way Fiat made their version of a convertible, which is unique to Fiat. Or if they had placed the volume button on the right side of the stereo, that would be a quirk. Or if you had to pump the gas pedal 3 times before turning the key to get the car started.

I am getting the Abarth and hope Fiat gets it's quality control in order by then. I am not excited about it being built in Mexico either, not that Italy's rep was any better in the past. Fiat had a bad reliability reputation when I was growing up and they had better focus on their QC or their reputati may come back to haunt them.

People who want to spend their lives constantly at a dealership getting repairs will soon fall off the "blind followers wagon" when it starts affecting their lives. Ever try to go on a trip but you are concerned about the probability of being stranded in your car? You might have if you owned a MINI or a BMW which both have a fuel pump issue in their turbo models since 2007-2011. People are abandoning MINI and BMW because of this, I know this because I also did.
So if Fiat wants to be the one they come running to, they need to Make sure they contain these issues in the first year and don't let them get out of hand or Fiat will resurrect their old slogan, FIAT ( fix it again Tony )

Just saying....
 

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4,500 miles in 2 months on my close-to-base model 500 Pop, and no issues at all. I had read on other forums the Firestone Firehawks like mine get noisy after 3,000 miles, but I haven't experienced that, either.
 

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With exception to the random desire to play the USB drive mine has been very good with now over 1500 miles.
Mine does that; probably software.


Hyundai is a soul-free car. Automotive purgatory. If you buy a Hyundai, your soul is drained by the car until you are an empty, wandering, wraith. Kevin Spacey will lose weight to play you in the movie.

Drive whatever you want but don't buy a vehicle solely by a reliability rating. Statistics are empty compared to happiness.

Rattles are quirks. A radio that switches to thumb-drive is a quirk.
A fuel pump that continues to run after the car is off (like my MINI), that's a safety issue. Airbags that turn themselves off (like my other MINI) or boots that pop open while driving (like that same MINI), more safety issues.

If my faith in FIAT proves ill-founded, I'll trade it on something else with a soul. It's not worth worrying about though. So far it's as cuddly and faithful as a Lab puppy.
And yes; it sleeps at the foot of our bed.
 

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Quirk can also be defined as a peculiarity of behavior -- such as that displayed by those who are stuck in the FIAT days of 30 years ago and can't mention FIAT without saying "Fix It Again Tony." FIAT is a much different company today producing some of the most reliable cars in Europe, including the FIAT 500 introduced in 2007. Do I need to remind anyone that, when Hyundai entered the US market in the 1980s, they ranked at the bottom of the reliability scale? But, lately have you heard anyone say: "Hope You Understand Nothing's Driveable And Inexpensive"? No, because Hyundai is also a different company today although I'd never buy one. So let's give FIAT a break.

And, yes Hilldweller, isn't it fun having your MINI's cargo lid pop open at 70 mph?
 
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