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What do you honestly expect!?! Good lord, these cars are not road warriors with big range. It is silly to think you are going to hear about 200k Fiat 500e at this point.

These are probably the shortest range EV on the market and they are relatively young to boot. That car with 118k for example has had to average over 16750mi/yr to reach that total. For a short range EV that is really pretty amazing annual mileage when you think about it, chances of finding more putting out those sorts of miles is very very slim.

If you are wondering about longevity it is way way to early in lifecycle for that to be gauged. Both for age affected issues and mileage.

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
What do you honestly expect!?! Good lord, these cars are not road warriors with big range. It is silly to think you are going to hear about 200k Fiat 500e at this point.

These are probably the shortest range EV on the market and they are relatively young to boot. That car with 118k for example has had to average over 16750mi/yr to reach that total. For a short range EV that is really pretty amazing annual mileage when you think about it, chances of finding more putting out those sorts of miles is very very slim.

If you are wondering about longevity it is way way to early in lifecycle for that to be gauged. Both for age affected issues and mileage.

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I was just asking, out of curiosity. What I expected was a bunch of people chiming in with low mile examples acting as though 50k is high miles. What I didn’t expect was for the thread to be totally derailed to talk about stuff entirely non related, or to offend you with such a stupid question.
Also, 80mi range is not even close to shortest range EV, but you clearly just want to berate me which isn’t on topic either, so, maybe you should leave instead.
 

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Sorry I came across that way, it was not intended to berate. Yes your thread got detailed by a few of us, not intentionally, for that I appologize.

I was just scratching my head at what you were expecting for higher miles for a 500e when I posted about one that is genuinely high miles for age.

It is just way too early in life cycle to be trying to establish "high miles" for EV's in general as compared to ICE. Mainstream EV are around 10yrs old max? 15k/yr, would be 150k ish total. Like you I think that is to low to be considered high mileage. Give them another 5-10yr and we will be in better position to evaluate longevity. That said there are more and more posts starting to pop up with Tesla's in the 200k+ range and I thought one over 400? Our little 500e will have a very tough time getting to those sort of distances anytime soon.

I didn't think there were other factory ev shorter range than 500e? I thought even the leaf was higher?

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
I was just asking, out of curiosity. What I expected was a bunch of people chiming in with low mile examples acting as though 50k is high miles. What I didn’t expect was for the thread to be totally derailed to talk about stuff entirely non related, or to offend you with such a stupid question.
Sorry I came across that way, it was not intended to berate. Yes your thread got detailed by a few of us, not intentionally, for that I appologize.

I was just scratching my head at what you were expecting for higher miles for a 500e when I posted about one that is genuinely high miles for age.

It is just way too early in life cycle to be trying to establish "high miles" for EV's in general as compared to ICE. Mainstream EV are around 10yrs old max? 15k/yr, would be 150k ish total. Like you I think that is to low to be considered high mileage. Give them another 5-10yr and we will be in better position to evaluate longevity. That said there are more and more posts starting to pop up with Tesla's in the 200k+ range and I thought one over 400? Our little 500e will have a very tough time getting to those sort of distances anytime soon.

I didn't think there were other factory ev shorter range than 500e? I thought even the leaf was higher?

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We’ll read the title, I asked who has the highest. One person has almost 120k, so, that’s starting to get up there, which is exactly what I was asking about, and it turns out someone has one, and I’ll consider this the highest mile example until I hear about one higher. That’s all. If that car is a 2013 then it’s 9 years old, averaging 13k per year, or 36mi per day. Not unreasonable at all. I guess I’m confused by your confusion about this. Based on these numbers it’s possible someone has a 200k 500e. I’m not saying it would be “easy”, but, that’s not what I asked. The fact that someone has a 118k example is the very proof of this. Glad to hear it. Mine will take much longer, as I don’t drive much at all. But, I didn’t buy it to put lot of miles on. If someone has a 50mi commute, and charges at work, that’s 100+ mi per day. Assuming they do this 5 days a week, that means they could have 230k mi now on a 2013. That’s high miles.
 

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I didn't think there were other factory ev shorter range than 500e? I thought even the leaf was higher?

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Smart electric has less, Mitsubishi Imev (or whatever it's called) had less. I think the 2013 Leaf has less too. When the 500e first came out, it had one of the highest ranges in its class.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Smart electric has less, Mitsubishi Imev (or whatever it's called) had less. I think the 2013 Leaf has less too. When the 500e first came out, it had one of the highest ranges in its class.
Not to mention several older gen cars, Chinese imports, ford ranger EV, may others. EV has been a reality for over 25 years.
 

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Do you use the stoc oem charger or do you have an aftermarket 220v?
I'm curious why you ask. Batteries do degrade faster with high current, but even L2 is pretty slow by industry standards. It's only about 0.275C. To put that in perspective...

I haven't found a longevity test for our EXACT cells, but I found one for the very next generation. They charged to 100%* at 0.5C*, discharged to 20% at the equivalent of about 65mph & got 1.56% loss per 10,000 miles.

*Our cars limit both of those factors to much milder levels.

Also, it was only my initial theory that L2 causes the contactor glitch, & I've now realized it's equally likely that all the glitch reports so far are after L2 charging simply because that's what nearly everybody uses nearly all the time.
 

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Yes I reset the gauge after every charge. The average speed is the result of sitting in traffic on the 405 FWY.

Ya, no kidding! Assuming the trip gauge was reset at full charge, 85 miles driven, divided by 95% used (5% left) means 89.5 miles of city range* after nearly 96,000 miles on the car.

That's less than 1% loss per 10,000 miles.


* "avg. speed: 24 mph" displayed.
 

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Ya, no kidding! Assuming the trip gauge was reset at full charge, 85 miles driven, divided by 95% used (5% left) means 89.5 miles of city range* after nearly 96,000 miles on the car.

That's less than 1% loss per 10,000 miles.


* "avg. speed: 24 mph" displayed.
Hmmm, at 5.3 mi/kWh, he used 16 kWh to go 85 miles with 5% remaining. Based on these numbers it looks like battery has about 17 kWh capacity. If usable when new is 21 kWh, then it looks like around 80% is left which is roughly 2% per 10k miles. This of course assumes that the percent reading on the dash board is calibrated to the OBD reading.
 

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I'm not exactly sure if that's the right way to extrapolate the total capacity remaining. If I stayed on the gas pedal the whole time throughout the 85 miles drive then I guess you could say the math checks out. But part of the 5.3 mi/kWh is attributed to regen, so I would say the actual efficiency is closer to 4.0-4.5 mi/kWh. Either way, I know that the car takes in about 19.5 kWh on a full charge from ~2% to 100%. Back in early 2021, a full charge would be closer to 20.5 kWh so I know I've lost a little bit of capacity over the past 12 months or so.
Hmmm, at 5.3 mi/kWh, he used 16 kWh to go 85 miles with 5% remaining. Based on these numbers it looks like battery has about 17 kWh capacity. If usable when new is 21 kWh, then it looks like around 80% is left which is roughly 2% per 10k miles. This of course assumes that the percent reading on the dash board is calibrated to the OBD reading.
 

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I'm not exactly sure if that's the right way to extrapolate the total capacity remaining. If I stayed on the gas pedal the whole time throughout the 85 miles drive then I guess you could say the math checks out. But part of the 5.3 mi/kWh is attributed to regen, so I would say the actual efficiency is closer to 4.0-4.5 mi/kWh. Either way, I know that the car takes in about 19.5 kWh on a full charge from ~2% to 100%. Back in early 2021, a full charge would be closer to 20.5 kWh so I know I've lost a little bit of capacity over the past 12 months or so.
Not sure regen has a 20+% impact, unless you have a lot of down hill on a one way trip. EPA says it takes 25 kWh to charge from empty when new. So if you are at 20 kWh to charge from empty, that is also 80% of capacity compared to new. Assuming your calibration is a bit off, you might be around 85% of new capacity. Probably reasonable to think the loss is around 1.5+% per 10,000 miles.
 

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Technically it’s a 24 kWh battery pack, but it’s been well established that the actual usable capacity to begin with is lower than that since the cells are capped at 4.1v


EPA says it takes 25 kWh to charge from empty when new. So if you are at 20 kWh to charge from empty, that is also 80% of capacity compared to new. Assuming your calibration is a bit off, you might be around 85% of new capacity. Probably reasonable to think the loss is around 1.5+% per 10,000 miles.
 

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Technically it’s a 24 kWh battery pack, but it’s been well established that the actual usable capacity to begin with is lower than that since the cells are capped at 4.1v
Understood. The 25 kWh the EPA reports is what is put into the charger. Usable capacity is somewhere around 21 to 22 kWh when new. So 3 or 4 kWh are lost due to charging inefficiencies. So on the high end the charger is around 88% efficient. If you are putting in 20 kWh measured by the charger, the pack is getting 17.6 kWh. This is 80 percent of 22 kWh.
 
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