There is absolutely nothing FIAT can do to mainstream the A500. Why? There is absolutely nothing FIAT can do to mainstream the starting point for the heavily modified 'cento.

There are so many leftover Abarths on lots for two reasons; 1) FIAT NA believed the Abarth could sell here as a mass-proudction car, 2) FIAT NA delivered the studio & dealer allotments late in the year (September-October).

Our LS has a low number of 2014s, for obvious reasons. One or two of those 2014s were custom-ordered. That is how Abarth sales worked early on. The studios ordered a few for inventory and the rest were ordered by consumers. As a result, Abarth production matched demand for the model… No problems. For some reason, unbeknownst to me, FIAT NA decided to make a run for A500 mass-production in the second or third quarter of 2013. Bad move… especially when considering the launch of the 'T'.

The Abarth is a 500, but it is a Cinquino for a very different consumer. There is a combination of different things (the heritage, the cuteness, the size, the exhaust note, the stiffer handling, the Italian styling, the color palette, the options, the stellar fuel economy traded for power and the 'Italian' seating position) happening, with the Scorpione, which FIAT happens to have all to itself. There isn't another [non-FIAT] car like it, in the slightest, on the market. There is no precedent for this car here. There is no other car or automaker at which to look and exclaim, "That's the way to do this thing". FIAT NA is faced with selling something to a public which ought to sell itself… and did when they allowed it. Fortunately, for those interested and in a position to act, there will be quite a few more Abarths on the road this summer. But people are still buying the standards 500s in larger numbers.

My P.O.V.? Stop trying to USAmericanize something wholly Italian. The Abarth is for aficionados among aficionados.

 

I think Fiat pissed off a bunch of potential buyers when it first came out by not making many available as well as studios pulling the whole "in order to test drive it you need to buy it first" crap like they were more special than they actually were. Then for 2013 they over produced them almost like they thought those potential customers would come running back. Nope. Now they're stuck with a bunch they need to get rid of. I hope who ever was in charge of planning that is no longer at FCA. For 2014, I hope they go back to not making so many which should make them harder to get. Maybe that'll help bring the vaules back and make us that bought without all the discounts happy.

 

They should have made it a limited production car. 2000 to 2500 cars max. Left it at that.

 

@LCA ~ There, as they say, it is.

 

Fiat should have market it, like the first Cinquecento Prima Edizione models. Limited numbers. Only 500 numbered. Not so main stream. Chevy, did that with many Corvette models over the years.

 

That and the studio attitude as was said, buy THEN drive? Buy and pay XX over sticker, etc.. Bah... I'm of the mind that even though the big discounts pain for some of the buyers who paid more, seeing more 500s on the road may be one of the better ways to market the car? I do see many more and that's a good thing to me.

 

Going from price gouging to steep discounts, all in the course of less than a year, is NOT a good way to create brand loyality.

 

Just wish I would have waited to buy. I understand dealers are basically "giving" them away right now or should I state "providing incredible discounts"

 

In the NA market you need to offer an automatic transmission version …

 

This would be necessary to capture the majority market (as much as I hate the idea).

Im my opinion, the Abarth has something else working against it...anyone I've spoken to who WOULD potentially be interested in the vehicle points out the power output of the vehicle vs. the price. They'll readily consider a GTI, MINI, Subaru option instead.

They were on the right track with the Venom/MOPAR concept, and then completely scrapped any further investment into it.

The potential buyers market wants in-house tuner options for a vehicle marketed as a performance brand. Fiat certainly can't advertise it as a family car, so commit full way and offer a "JCW" option to reinforce the brand.

 

''the Abarth has something else working against it...anyone I've spoken to who WOULD potentially be interested in the vehicle points out the power output of the vehicle vs. the price. They'll readily consider a GTI, MINI, Subaru option''


That is a very valid point. But at the current market with deep discounts this little rocket looks very attractive, There is a base model at my local store , no options for 17,000.00 out the door plus tax

 

Any GTI, Mini, or Subaru that equals the Abarth weight to HP ratings would be way higher priced than even the un-discounted Abarth, at least here in Canada anyway, not sure what those others go for in the U.S.

I've personally change the minds of 3 friends who were looking at Mini's just by letting them drive my barth

I was also blown away by the "no test drive" attitude, but I finally found a dealer who would let me drive one, and I was sold, but seriously??? I've test driven 200K Aston Martins for test drives with less hassle!!

 

Any GTI, Mini, or Subaru that equals the Abarth weight to HP ratings would be way higher priced than even the un-discounted Abarth, at least here in Canada anyway, not sure what those others go for in the U.S.

I've personally change the minds of 3 friends who were looking at Mini's just by letting them drive my barth

It's not exclusively the HP ratings, but they see 160 and they're not concerned with the power-to-weight ratio. It's other things too. MINIs for luxury features, GTIs for aftermarket support/tuner culture, or All-wheel-drive Subaru models, etc.

Every brand will have its strength, but as far as the Fiat/Abarth brand is concerned, an old (faulty) reputation needs to be replaced. The times I've heard the "Fix-it-again-Tony" joke is irritating, to the say the least...and people will remember that catchy quip before they reasonably consider the vehicle/brand strengths.

 

I read a post that stated FIAT has the market alone on this type of vehicle but I would have to disagree (of coarse lol) To mind comes the Mini S, Civic Si, Subaru Wrx/sti, Volks Gti, and to a smaller extent special edition Mustangs, Camaros, Dodge Challengers, 370Z and lastly Corvettes. Realistically a fully loaded Abarth is 30K in Canada and sports car buyers will sometimes gladly spend many thousands more for their ride. Anything wrong with the Abarth, nope but there is just a whole lotta competition and I mean a whole lotta competition in the market today. I know I have forgotten many more cars like the Mazda Mx-5 but some will get the idea.

 

The only two cars on your list that are even close to the Abarth are the Mini (way more money) and, a stretch, the CivicSI (gutless) once you get to the WRX and the others you're comparing apples to oranges?? Really Fiat and Mini are the only two cars of this size with the power to compare in my opinion. Looks like Scion my have some competition coming as well, but not here yet.

 

Gentlemen, please consider that I'm not claiming those cars are in the same class/segment. I'm simply stating that as far as personal criticisms I've heard, and vehicles the Abarth has been compared to, those are the ones that make the list. Results may vary based on your personal experiences (another I forgot to mention is the Ford Fiesta ST).

Most people wouldn't care to exclude these other vehicles based on one technicality or the other. They'll gladly look at what's available in the umbrella of what they consider their affordable price range and draw conclusions from there.

I'd otherwise agree that one could consider the Mini "direct competition" and not so much the other brands, but take a visit to the Mini forums and you'll realize many Mini owners don't even consider the Abarth to be on common ground. I'll spare you the brutal details, as many of the comments aren't very kind.

Factor in a percentage of bias, preconceived notions, personal preferences, and a dash of ignorance I'm certain you'll get a much better picture of the common consumer and the reasons why this vehicle may not be selling as it deserves to.

At the end of the day you either go one of two ways, cater to the majority, or cater to the niche...and I'm still not convinced Fiat has dedicated itself as far in the right direction as it should have to appropriately push this specific performance brand into the spotlight, at least as far as the North American market is concerned.

 

'Not commenting on your post, Shawn. I commented on moleng1's post, which cited someone else's post. My point had less to do with FIATs compared to other cars than it did the fact FIAT NA should allow the Abarth to be what it is… don't try to Americanize it.

 

I would tend to agree with this - offer something unique in its own way (i.e. European) and quit trying to pander to fat lazy Americans who are afraid to do more than simply pull a lever into "D" and go. This same debate goes on over at one of my Volkswagen boards where VW has tried to cater to the American market and in so doing they've lost some of that Volkswagen "magic" to an extent. Now if you want the high end sporty Golf, you're going to be shelling out somewhere in the neighborhood of $40-$45K for the new R when it gets here (which is absolutely insane - forty grand for a Golf? I don't think so). Even a base model Golf starts at $20K now and that's for a bog standard model and goes up from there.

Offer the American market, small and niche as it may be, an actual European driving experience and/or European model car(s). I've said it before, I like unique and funky and if I didn't, I'd be driving around in a Ford or something. The 500 sells quite well worldwide and I'd like to see the car stay the way it is rather than get watered down for lazy people. People never believe me when I tell them that the vast majority of Europeans drive manual transmissions, even in big passenger vans. The Abarth, as I understand it, is basically an enthusiast car and generally car enthusiasts don't have a problem with a stick - most prefer them because it's more fun and adds to the experience.

My opinion on the issue is this - like I've said before, Fiat has only been back in the U.S. for two years. They are still trying to get the word out and get recognition for the brand. Along with only being back in the market for two years with the 500, they also tried to introduce the Abarth as a higher end performance model for more money. So now not only are you trying to tell people what a Fiat 500 is, you are now trying to explain to them the difference between a 500 and the Abarth, why they should care, and why they should pay so much more for it. I agree with some others that they probably should have limited the number on them, but they also should have had them stick to a more base price point (like $22K or so and not try to sell loaded down models for nearly $30K in some cases, they just aren't worth it). I knew about them when I got my Pop and my dealer had plenty of new/used Abarths, I just didn't think they were worth the extra money.

Fiat needs time and people need to give it to them - if they still haven't got things sorted out by say year five or so, I'd start worrying more about it. But until then, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and am providing them with plenty of patience

 

Ordered the first car at my dealer, paid full price, am so glad to have it and, I dunno. Sure glad to have my Fiat though. Funnest car I've ever owned.

 

Remember Americans do not have patience that said I think the Problem with Fiat overall is everything they do here in Na is done half Arse.

Parts not get them in a timely Manner. Clutch Problems fighting the Customer. Roll out of Fiat in NA you have to commit to buy
before you can drive an Abarth. I just laughed at the Stealer.........and walked away. MB just rolled out the new A Class Guess what they had Cars on Hand to Test Drive before you buy.

Studios OMG some are just so lame you just want to run over to K Mart to feel normal again......

Here is the Way I see it. The Car is fine no complains love my Abarth but them People of FCA need to get off there Behinds and take a Bus Tour across NA to find out what is wrong with the Studios and why the Cars are not selling.

You can not push a great Product on the Consumers with lousy Service........

Will I go out and wait and buy an Alfa..... **** No!!!!!! Giving Birth to an Elephant once was enough....

I know Cento will not agree with my Post.

 

I wonder if the Mini would have done so well if it was sold with an Austin (think that was the original maker) badge and not the BMW one. Also....it's been a while, how did the Mini do when it first came out here? Think it also depends on the parent dealership...some embraced Fiat giving them high visibility, while others (not pointing fingers) stuck them on a back lot. I toyed with a BMW Mini convertible...but the Fiat was so much less money with better standard options, and it seems that once a "new brand" gets established here...they start raising their prices, so it was nice being in on the ground floor of a vehicle that's not only unique...but is Italian in styling. Maybe they made to many Abarths, I figure the Abarth to Fiat is what Cobra is to Mustang, so there would be less..but when you saw one...you just knew what it was. Maybe they should've offered an automatic, but not highly announce it (though I agree...I just couldn't imagine Ribelle as an automatic).

The whole you can't drive it until you buy it thing must vary from dealership to dealership. Even when we were first looking they offered to let me take an Abarth out for a test drive (was even told if we had come in on Friday night...we could've kept it out till saturday (not sure if that policy is still there or not). Think some were disappointed with no real after purchase mods options that you could actually see (I know Terry at the LS is working at his level to change it, and PCSGuy is a good example). Not a lot of support from outside local vendors either (one said they don't do mods on cars anymore...though they do on the higher end ones it seems, and the other place that seemed eager and was suppose to call with a quote on everything hasn't called back). Wish we had someplace like others do on the east and west coasts.

Just need to give Fiat time to come into it's own. Same with the Abarth (do they really factory govern it to 130mph?, less it the top's down?). I just hope Fiat doesn't become just another car company, but stays unique with it's styling. (gawd help me...I need more coffee)

 

I wonder if the Mini would have done so well if it was sold with an Austin (think that was the original maker) badge and not the BMW one. Also....it's been a while, how did the Mini do when it first came out here? Think it also depends on the parent dealership...some embraced Fiat giving them high visibility, while others (not pointing fingers) stuck them on a back lot. I toyed with a BMW Mini convertible...but the Fiat was so much less money with better standard options, and it seems that once a "new brand" gets established here...they start raising their prices, so it was nice being in on the ground floor of a vehicle that's not only unique...but is Italian in styling. Maybe they made to many Abarths, I figure the Abarth to Fiat is what Cobra is to Mustang, so there would be less..but when you saw one...you just knew what it was. Maybe they should've offered an automatic, but not highly announce it (though I agree...I just couldn't imagine Ribelle as an automatic).

Mini didn't do that well when it was sold here in the U.S. at first either and had horrible reliability issues (and apparently still does). The Mini had (has?) the same issue that a car like the Fiat does - nobody here really knows/knew what it is/was when they first hit the market. Die hard car guys knew, but the general public didn't. They are also small cars, something the "give me the biggest thing on four wheels with the biggest engine that I can get and gas mileage be damned" American public doesn't readily embrace for whatever reason. I think that is changing slowly thanks to higher gas prices, but it's still there. I think the American mentality more than anything else is what hurts these cars (Fiat, Mini, small Fords, Kia, Hyundai, etc.) more than anything else. The best sales that I ever had while selling cars for Kia was when a flag waving Texan rolled up in his/her Hummer, jacked 4X4 truck, or $90K high end SUV and begged to be put into a small car that got good gas mileage - I loved those I was my dealer the other day checking on my tags and a guy had just come in with some brand new '13 $80K Range Rover and traded it in on a 500, gotta love it!

 

Thanks Lil Blue.

@ek ~ allow me to reiterate just why I often disagree with you. It's not always your position… it's usually your pitch.

1) [This is the most important one] You live in PHX, AZ and I live in MKE, WI. Neither you nor I have experienced the stuff you exaggerate as being a widespread FIAT service problem. We are literally on opposite sides of the map… no complaints about our respective local studios.

I give you a hard time for the same reason I give every person, with a penchant for high drama, a hard time. You exploit drama to draw attention and it works. It gets a reaction. Like putting that last line in your post… the "give birth to an elephant line" wasn't dramatic enough. So, you threw my username in for good measure. Drama.

Thanks, buddy

2) Our LS has never turned anyone away for service. Check dealer rater… check with Ciao FIAT… check the issues section here. They're awesome. So, what should my opinion of our LS & FIAT Corp be? Should I come to a forum and start complaint threads about the issues other people claim to have (many of whom never come back once their issue is resolved)? 'Not my style, my friend.

I was invited, by no fewer than 3 people at our LS, Tony Westley - former SS, Brandon Drew - current SS and Ryan Lenfestey - former SD, to test drive the Abarth… beginning with the day I very decisively chose to purchase a Pop. This was when they only had the SD demo. In fact, I was invited to take one out several times. I was also invited to test drive a Turbo & and an Abarth back-to-back (for a difference comparison) and all available trim levels of the Elle. It's been documented here, because I recorded my experience. Fastforward 1 1/2 years. I paid off my Pop early and moved into an Abarth. That's what happens when one is treated like a human being. I'm a repeat customer. Before becoming a repeat customer, I started a club… me, the not a cary guy. That's what I think of the brand. My/our efforts are supported by our LS.

You've purchased three different times at the same studio. That, to me, is stranger than the thought of you giving birth to an elephant. Why would one give people whose service one dislike more of my money? That is, for lack of better words, insane. You're rewarding substandard performance. But wait… you actually like your LS.

3) "… Here is the Way I see it. The Car is fine no complains love my Abarth but them People of FCA need to get off there Behinds and take a Bus Tour across NA to find out what is wrong with the Studios and why the Cars are not selling…" is the only part of your entire post I can seriously. The rest of it is… drama. I agree with this statement… 100%.

Thanks for the chuckle and the one fine point

 

I know, when the Mini first came out. Our artist community bought them up. It was the only game in town then. I thought the 500 would be hot in our environment too. It really didn't take really off. Just a couple of 500 were at work. A couple folks at work who owned Mini's, ask me about my 500. I told them I liked it. They were diehard Mini owners too. They weren't going to switch. Some of the artist that had Mini's sold them off, cause maintenance, was too $$$$$. BMW service cost.

Our first two Olathe studio managers owned Mini's. They still do. Both like the Fiat product they sold. I wish Terry at the studio was more like Gab, and Mandy. Those 2 organized Fiat events.

I remember Dave the past sale manager saying, may he rest in peace. He made comment, if the Abarths had automatic's, they would have sold better. People like the car, but didn't want a stick. Mac said the same thing at the Northtowne studio too.

 

I remember Dave the past sale manager saying, may he rest in peace. He made comment, if the Abarths had automatic's, they would have sold better. People like the car, but didn't want a stick. Mac said the same thing at the Northtowne studio too.

I tend to believe that an automatic would have increased the Abarth sales somewhat, but I have to ask if the lack of that option caused people to shop elsewhere, or merely moved them to buy an automatic equipped 500 model instead. If the latter is true, then FCA made a sale regardless, I would argue to leave the Abarth true to it's sporting roots with a manual ONLY

 

My dos centavos on this >>> A Fiat Studio with a 5oo L , a 4 door Dart ( with an Italian name ) a base POP 500 all with the automatic option and the ABARTH manual box only as the brand STAR . Then what would have been the scenario ?

 

@mocha ~ You're describing the full package (and ideal situation). Unfortunately, for the hardcore fan base and other early adopters), it didn't go down that way. But it is slowly happening. Marchionne was correct when he said they came here one year too early.

@RNDDUDE ~ 100%.

 

^^^^ The current price discounts on the ABARTH is making the car " an affordable Italian Style micro car " the reason that I am on the hunt/trade for one at the moment

 

in my experience it seems the biggest problem is Fiat hasn't figured out the supply chain very well. Back in July when I bought my Pop, of the 45+ 500's on the lot the studio had all of 3 Abarths, and one a Cabrio. I can see how it would be tough to move them when a buyer has little or no choice in color or options...

 

It's a shame, Fiat losing money on the Abarth cause it only offers a manual.

 

ive said it before...there are cars far more exclusive, sporty, etc...where production is not limited to manual transmissions. there is no good reason for it. Fiat is just losing buyers.

 

Late last October. Too many Abarth's and 500L's

 

Late last October. Too many Abarth's and 500L's

Nothing to do with an automatic transmission…everything to do with mass-producing the Abarth and missing the 2nd & 3rd quarter deliveries. Studios/dealers ended up with all their inventory in the 4th quarter. Fact.