Welcome to the forum John, we have had a few I recall mention the rear-end being off center and some tire wear that made no sense, hopefully one of them pops in with some details for you sometime soon.

 

Yea good luck I will be interested to see how this comes out.


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My car has an issue still being investigated - the thrust angle of the rear axle was off more than spec allows, and recently the whole axle assembly was been re-aligned so the front and rear tires track together now. However what they were unable to do was correct the fact that one side has a full degree of negative camber more than the other. Complicating my situation was the car being hit a year back, left side rear bumper replaced. I do not believe the 2 are connected but the dealer, unsurprisingly, wants to tie them together as that makes it part of the insurance claim vs something Fiat has to cover..

Story still unfolding...

 

Well, I have been pleasantly surprised ! After a couple of days of investigation, FIAT has agreed the rear beam axle is to be replaced at no charge ! Dealer advises I will have to pay for another alignment check but I can live with that.

Parts are now on order but a few days away. Stay tuned.....

John

 

This is encouraging news, tuned I will stay.

 

My left rear is wearing strange also. They said it was because I didnt rotate them but it made no sense that it had flat spots all around it and the right rear was just cupped a bit. I didnt rotate them because of the issue. They said that it was all within spec and I still got a mud tire sound coming from the back end till I get some new rubbers.

 

Rotated mine at 6000 KM. had to replace all 4 tires last week. The right rear was the worse, worn almost smooth. The tires had 18000 KM on them. I had an alignment check done and it looked alright. I'll keep a close eye on the tire wear.


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At this point, I do not have a repair order per se as the car was dropped off with a copy of the independant alignment shops work order and comments. A number of discussions have taken place over the phone since then to get to this point.

Let me see what I get when I get the car back (still at least a week away)

John

 

Noticed my rear tires are wearing funny. Posted this a couple weeks ago. 20K miles. Been rotated 3 time now. Correct air pressure.

 

no issues with 11,000 miles

 

I have strange rear tire wear. Noticed when I got a nail in the tire. Had the alignment checked and right rear is toed in one degree too much, 1/4 inch, it's visible to the eye. Also huge rear end vibration between 65-80mph.
I am just engaging the dealer to address the issue,
Early 2012 Pop, 11000 miles, no hits.

 

Vito: Let me know what the studio says.. if you need any further assistance , PM me.

 

It's good to read about an issue accompanied by some action (or at least a decision) from FIAT NA. Thanks for sharing with everyone. I, for one, will be checking in to read the final outcome.

 

Had the same issue. Please see my thread here for the gory details:

http://www.fiat500owners.com/forum/.../forum/11-fiat-500-wheels-tires-suspension/8884-rapid-tire-wear-rear-tires.html

In the end the rear axle was replaced under warranty.

 

Would anyone know if this issue related to having different offset between the two rear wheels? My RR seems to be flush with fender and the LR sits approx. 3-5 mm inward. The car is lowered and with aftermarket wheels which may have accentuated the issue.

 

You should get that looked at and fixed. Not a simple job so be prepared to be persistent.

 

My rear axle was recently replaced; in my case it was deemed there was sufficient evidence to suggest the prior year's rear end bump was the cause. Me, not so sure but it's all back in spec now so I guess that's what matters in the end?

 

Ill be following up for sure...just wanted to know of anyone else having the same issue as well. Thanks for the replies.

 

I, too, have a wacky beam axle. Tires are 75% worn in 26K mi. (They were rotated). My studio investigated, and a couple of hours later, told me that they will replace the rear beam axle and spindles on Tuesday. I would like to thank all who contributed to this thread for the insight to this problem.

Haz

 

My 2012 500c has just under 25,000 miles on it (40,000 km) evenly split between a set of snows and the OEM (Conti) tires and both tire sets are nearly done. The OEM's are back on it right now and the left rear is worn nearly to the wear bars (3/32) and the right rear is not quite as bad at (5/32).

I was suspicious of alignment and arranged recently for a local FIAT studio to perform an alignment. When I arrived to pick up the car, they declared they had run their hands over the tires, that they were evenly worn and therefore there was no need to perform one. Under questioning they eventually admitted their aligment rack was down and proposed I return another day (having lost a day off work already I declined)

I had a local independant shop put it on an alignment rack and they discovered the left rear toe was significantly out of spec (toed out at .75 degree) and confirmed it was non-adjustable. They were confident that this was the source of the excess tire wear.

We now have a new FIAT dealer in town (only a few weeks old) , so I have taken the car over to them and they also confirmed the left rear is well out of alignment and could find no signs of any damage to the car (which I have owned since new). They want to replace the entire rear beam axle, perhaps the left rear swing arm also, and cost is believed to be around $3K, perhaps more.


As there is no damage to any of my wheels or bodyshell, and I am confident the car has never hit a major pothole, curb or been accidented, I am strongly of the opinion the car was assembled this way. I have also seen a few remarks about some of the 2012 500's having rear alignment/beam axle issues but was hoping to hear from anyone else that might have experienced this or can confirm this.

Has anyone on the forums discovered problems with rear alignment, the rear axle setup, abnormal tire wear, or had to have the rear suspension replaced? If so, how did FIAT respond (i.e. did they cover under warranty or not?)

Many thanks for any feedback!

John

Good luck trying to get it fixed by FIAT or a FIAT dealer. I have the same issue except that my rear tires were worn significantly more than the fronts...BUT evenly worn. No one at FIAT or a FIAT dealer either had the balls or the mental capacity to try and explain to me how a FWD car with front weight bias would have rear tires wearing out much faster than the fronts. And the lack of interest and even worse...lack of engagement in the matter by FIAT really put a sour taste in my mouth.

I do have it documented however, and I did take to a Pirelli outlet where the service manager there also agreed with my assessment that the rear tires are unreasonably worn. The idiot service manager at the FIAT studio in downtown LA had the audacity to tell me these tires only last 15k miles or less. What a moron.

Calling FIAT will get you nowhere but fray your nerves...don't even bother.

 

Heres the latest....
Went to dealer to check it out. They first put car on alignment rack and all was in spec. That wasnt my issue as car drove fine and too new to gauge tire wear patterns. Still didnt explain why the diff in offset. Small but there. As the tech and service mgr were discussing the issue, I took a peak at another car in the shop. Sure enough...it was also off and the same side RR. Not as much but there. Brought it to their attention and we all decided to check out the showroom cars. What do you know....they all had it too. Again, not as noticeable on stock car (but its there) however, once lowered with the wheel closer to fender, it definitely accentuates the issue.

The dealer was fantastic and they took the issue to heart. They'll be contacting district engineering to see if there are any bullentins upcoming for the fix. The issue is not apparent driving and do not notice any pull at all. As I mentioned, the alignment specs are spot on. Im just concerned about long term structural issues.

 

I replaced all 4 tires at 18000 Km (11000 miles). Right rear was bald. Had alignment checked at independent shop. They said everything is good. I'll monitor the new tires closely. Tires lasted 10 months.


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I too have the same issue of toe being off with the driver rear wheel. My closest dealer (both the studio people and their service people) have simply shrugged their shoulders and said there's no adjustment for that so there's nothing they can do. Car is a '13 Abarth with 9500 miles. It's been lowered on Eibach springs and drives fine, fortunately. Between this and my experience just trying to get a simple oil change, maybe it's time to try another Houston dealer...

 

I too have the same issue of toe being off with the driver rear wheel. My closest dealer (both the studio people and their service people) have simply shrugged their shoulders and said there's no adjustment for that so there's nothing they can do.

Not true. Even with the replaced axle on my car, the alignment tech (VW and Fiat in 1 dealership and this was their 'pro' guy) ended up ordering shims for the back to make sure everything was just-so. Not sure how the shims are a whole lot different than washers But he and I had a conversation back when he found the car un-align-able due to whatever and knew that I was not just looking for proper spec but a little more fun (disclosure I have camber adjusting bolts up front). And he was willing to make sure the car was just a little more than perfect after parts replacement..

Point being there may not be formal alignment bits out back, or very little, but there are solutions to the toe being off .. don't give up too easily (though I agree shouldn't be something you have to battle for..)

 

I visited a lot on sunday and every car I physically checked which totaled about 7, had the rear end shifted at least 1/4" to the right. These were checked visually and by using my hand and fingers as a go/no-go guage between the rear tires and inner fender well at the backside of the tire. It's not a real scientific method but it was repeatable and consistent, showing the same results on all of the Abarths I checked as well as a couple of the other 500s looked at. I might take a mason's line with for the next visit and wrap all four wheels to look for and verify off tracking or dog-tracking of the rear axle. This should not be ignored or accepted. I have intended since April to purchase an Abarth and it is now down to the wire, but if Fiat does not address this and come up with a solution, I will choose to shop other makes, as much as I don't want to. To get a basic understanding of what is going on you might want to check out the following report......

This information can be used to show in an exaggerated fashion what is happening, albeit on a lesser scale. This is an important issue to me, having been placed in a company vehicle that dog tracked, and dealing with it's problems through the many years of my employment with that company. It created issues in handling and control of the vehicle, which became particularly noticeable to a driver in inclement weather or icy road conditions, and while backing, but was also easily noticed by anyone following the truck, and as the following states, the company unknowingly or uncaringly suffered losses in economy and maintenance costs through unneeded tire wear and excess fuel costs. It was wearing on me as well due to the issues with having to work extra to overcome the issues created during the backing of the tractor/trailer combo.

From this link: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/facts-rese...earch/research-technology/report/tractor-trailer-dynamic-alignment-research.htm

Below are a couple areas where dog-tracking or rear end mis-alignment is mentioned in the report. It applies to the trucking industry and combination vehicles, but the problems created by alignment issues carry over to other vehicles as well.

2.1 Impacts of Alignment on Safety and Operating Costs Vehicle alignment is a major area of concern among North American motor carriers because of its direct implications on the life of tires, fuel economy, and safety. Alignment is often thought of in connection with the steer axles only. However, it has been recognized for some time that the rear axles on a tractor also must be properly aligned, and that the tractor and trailer units should be aligned with each other (in combination vehicles) for optimal performance. Misalignment can cause a variety of problems, including irregular tire wear, fuel economy loss, and vehicle vibration. Tire Wear: Various types of misalignment cause tires to "scrub" and oppose each other. Excessive and/or uneven tire wear is known to reduce control of steering inputs, particularly on low-friction surfaces (e.g., wet pavement), thus compromising the operator's ability to execute quick, precise maneuvers. Fuel Economy: Misalignment between front and rear axles on a tractor, and/or between the tractor and trailer units themselves (e.g. "dog-tracking"), causes the engine to work harder because rolling resistance is increased-and fuel economy suffers. Vehicle Vibration: Misalignment conditions can often lead to higher-than-normal vibration levels in the steering wheel and/or operator's seat. The result can be an uncomfortable ride that contributes to driver discomfort, muscular fatigue, and stress. Such vibration can also increase wear on suspension and chassis components. 2.3 Total Vehicle Alignment It is important to note that the 'total vehicle' should be properly aligned, not just the front axle. Industry experts generally agree that alignment of the drive axles in a tandem configuration is also critically important for the vehicle to achieve proper tracking. There are two basic ways that drive axles can be misaligned. In one case, if both axles are parallel but are not perpendicular to the vehicle centerline, then a resultant "thrust" angle is created. As shown in Figure 4, the drive axles try to push the vehicle away from the centerline. If the drive axles are not parallel, then the situation is described as a "scrub" angle problem. In this case, the drive axles are trying to turn the vehicle. In either case, to bring the truck's travel back into a straight line, the driver has to provide an opposing steering input. This need for continual correction can induce driver muscular fatigue, as well as increased tire wear and reduced fuel economy. Figure 4. Tractor-Trailer Misalignment Conditions Trailer alignment is also critically important, and the Technology and Maintenance Council (TMC) recently updated procedures for aligning trailers in Recommended Practice (RP) 708. Trailer misalignment will also cause increased tire wear, increased aerodynamic drag, reduced stability, and reduced fuel economy Essentially, trailer alignment involves adjusting all components in such a way that the trailer tracks straight and true, and is a matter of adjusting how trailer components line up according to three parameters-axle orientation, axle toe, and axle camber. While trailer wheels can be out of alignment relative to camber and/or toe, according to some industry experts, the most common problem is axle offset. Axle offset, or 'dog-tracking,' is when the rear of the trailer is displaced to one side of the tractor when the trailer is being towed. Axle offset is expressed in degrees based on variance with the geometric driving axis, or thrust angle. Thrust angle is the angle between the longitudinal center plane and the geometrical axis.

I'm sure if I looked I could have found many articles based on the implications of rear end mis-alignment in cars, but I think using this example helps drive the point home and gives a clear understanding of the importance of good alignment.

 

I visited a lot on sunday and every car I physically checked which totaled about 7, had the rear end shifted at least 1/4" to the right. These were checked visually and by using my hand and fingers as a go/no-go guage between the rear tires and inner fender well at the backside of the tire. It's not a real scientific method but it was repeatable and consistent, showing the same results on all of the Abarths I checked as well as a couple of the other 500s looked at. I might take a mason's line with for the next visit and wrap all four wheels to look for and verify off tracking or dog-tracking of the rear axle. This should not be ignored or accepted. I have intended since April to purchase an Abarth and it is now down to the wire, but if Fiat does not address this and come up with a solution, I will choose to shop other makes, as much as I don't want to. To get a basic understanding of what is going on you might want to check out the following report......

This information can be used to show in an exaggerated fashion what is happening, albeit on a lesser scale. This is an important issue to me, having been placed in a company vehicle that dog tracked, and dealing with it's problems through the many years of my employment with that company. It created issues in handling and control of the vehicle, which became particularly noticeable to a driver in inclement weather or icy road conditions, and while backing, but was also easily noticed by anyone following the truck, and as the following states, the company unknowingly or uncaringly suffered losses in economy and maintenance costs through unneeded tire wear and excess fuel costs. It was wearing on me as well due to the issues with having to work extra to overcome the issues created during the backing of the tractor/trailer combo.

From this link: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/facts-rese...earch/research-technology/report/tractor-trailer-dynamic-alignment-research.htm

Below are a couple areas where dog-tracking or rear end mis-alignment is mentioned in the report. It applies to the trucking industry and combination vehicles, but the problems created by alignment issues carry over to other vehicles as well.

2.1 Impacts of Alignment on Safety and Operating Costs Vehicle alignment is a major area of concern among North American motor carriers because of its direct implications on the life of tires, fuel economy, and safety. Alignment is often thought of in connection with the steer axles only. However, it has been recognized for some time that the rear axles on a tractor also must be properly aligned, and that the tractor and trailer units should be aligned with each other (in combination vehicles) for optimal performance. Misalignment can cause a variety of problems, including irregular tire wear, fuel economy loss, and vehicle vibration. Tire Wear: Various types of misalignment cause tires to "scrub" and oppose each other. Excessive and/or uneven tire wear is known to reduce control of steering inputs, particularly on low-friction surfaces (e.g., wet pavement), thus compromising the operator's ability to execute quick, precise maneuvers. Fuel Economy: Misalignment between front and rear axles on a tractor, and/or between the tractor and trailer units themselves (e.g. "dog-tracking"), causes the engine to work harder because rolling resistance is increased-and fuel economy suffers. Vehicle Vibration: Misalignment conditions can often lead to higher-than-normal vibration levels in the steering wheel and/or operator's seat. The result can be an uncomfortable ride that contributes to driver discomfort, muscular fatigue, and stress. Such vibration can also increase wear on suspension and chassis components. 2.3 Total Vehicle Alignment It is important to note that the 'total vehicle' should be properly aligned, not just the front axle. Industry experts generally agree that alignment of the drive axles in a tandem configuration is also critically important for the vehicle to achieve proper tracking. There are two basic ways that drive axles can be misaligned. In one case, if both axles are parallel but are not perpendicular to the vehicle centerline, then a resultant "thrust" angle is created. As shown in Figure 4, the drive axles try to push the vehicle away from the centerline. If the drive axles are not parallel, then the situation is described as a "scrub" angle problem. In this case, the drive axles are trying to turn the vehicle. In either case, to bring the truck's travel back into a straight line, the driver has to provide an opposing steering input. This need for continual correction can induce driver muscular fatigue, as well as increased tire wear and reduced fuel economy. Figure 4. Tractor-Trailer Misalignment Conditions Trailer alignment is also critically important, and the Technology and Maintenance Council (TMC) recently updated procedures for aligning trailers in Recommended Practice (RP) 708. Trailer misalignment will also cause increased tire wear, increased aerodynamic drag, reduced stability, and reduced fuel economy Essentially, trailer alignment involves adjusting all components in such a way that the trailer tracks straight and true, and is a matter of adjusting how trailer components line up according to three parameters-axle orientation, axle toe, and axle camber. While trailer wheels can be out of alignment relative to camber and/or toe, according to some industry experts, the most common problem is axle offset. Axle offset, or 'dog-tracking,' is when the rear of the trailer is displaced to one side of the tractor when the trailer is being towed. Axle offset is expressed in degrees based on variance with the geometric driving axis, or thrust angle. Thrust angle is the angle between the longitudinal center plane and the geometrical axis.

I'm sure if I looked I could have found many articles based on the implications of rear end mis-alignment in cars, but I think using this example helps drive the point home and gives a clear understanding of the importance of good alignment.

Fiat's take on it and the way they've handled it...it seems...is to deny any issues until it's out of warranty or until you end up fitting the bill for new tires regardless. This is what I feel happened to me. Calling FIATCARES did nothing for me. Nor did calling FIAT corporate or demanding the dealer take a closer look. One thing I did do, however, was document the wear at a Pirelli distributor and did contact Pirelli themselves. I send pictures and documentation over and explained to them that FIAT is dismissing any wrong doing.

If, by the next time, the wear of the tires gets really bad, I'll begin documenting my issues on Youtube and post my videos and concerns as I go....at least then I'll be fully publicizing these issues.

 

^^^ Might as well hit FB for even more exposure. I normally wouldn't suggest such measures but it seems rather common and ignored, I'd say a bad scenario that needs to be addressed properly.

 

I just wanted to mention that I took my Sport to an independent shop for an alignment after installing the Eibach springs. The guy put it on a digital alignment machine, and showed me that the thrust angle was slightly out from the factory (a quarter-degree if I recall). He loosened the bolts that retained the rear axle and shifted it slightly until it was exact. And I mean "exact". lol He was pretty particular.

Anyways, the car did drive straight before the alignment, and I didn't have any abnormal tire wear, but it was still new at the time.

 

Hi Fiat Cares, I have had the alignment checked twice by different shops and both shops agree that the axle is not straight, tires are down to the wear bars. Tonkin Fiat has had my car for 10 days and they refuse to correct or even check the alignment based on the fact that the car has been lowered and has non-stock wheels, neither of which could affect a solid beam axle. As of now I have there loaner car and I am going to keep it till they fix my car.
You might want to contact LJ at 503-203-4605
Thanks for any help you can lend me, I am a huge Fiat(2)/Alfa(5) fan and feel terrible that my decision to help Fiat back into America has been shattered.

 

Mr. Fiat cares, can you help?

Dear Mr. Fiat Cares, I too need your help and influence with this issue. I have a 2013 Fiat 500 T with 18,800 miles on it. The rear tires are almost completely gone. There is absolutely no reason that a tire should wear that fast. I can't afford to be replacing a set of tires every 20,000 miles, especially at $130.00 a pop per tire. My Dealer/studio is Don Miller FIAT in Madison, Wisconsin. Mr. Miller is a pretty decent human being and I sent the studio an E-Mail explaining my frustration with this situation. I asked if they knew of anyone else with similar problems and by the length of just this one tread, I would call them a liar to their face if they said no. That being said, if you have any influence with the Studio's, I really could use and would greatly appreciate any assistance you could give me in getting this situation rectified. I would be hard pressed to recommend buying a FIAT to anyone if they are going to eat up tires so quickly. I will wait and see what the Studio says about this. If they tell me "Tough ----", I guess I will just trade the car in for something else and take the financial loss. That would be a shame, it's a fun car but I can't afford to be throwing money (and time, like I did for the front end issue) like I have. Please feel free to PM me or send me an E-Mail or contact me. If you really believe in your product, I really could use your assistance. Respectfully, Pills 53716

 

Dear Mr. Fiat Cares, I too need your help and influence with this issue. I have a 2013 Fiat 500 T with 18,800 miles on it. The rear tires are almost completely gone. There is absolutely no reason that a tire should wear that fast. I can't afford to be replacing a set of tires every 20,000 miles, especially at $130.00 a pop per tire. My Dealer/studio is Don Miller FIAT in Madison, Wisconsin. Mr. Miller is a pretty decent human being and I sent the studio an E-Mail explaining my frustration with this situation. I asked if they knew of anyone else with similar problems and by the length of just this one tread, I would call them a liar to their face if they said no. That being said, if you have any influence with the Studio's, I really could use and would greatly appreciate any assistance you could give me in getting this situation rectified. I would be hard pressed to recommend buying a FIAT to anyone if they are going to eat up tires so quickly. I will wait and see what the Studio says about this. If they tell me "Tough ----", I guess I will just trade the car in for something else and take the financial loss. That would be a shame, it's a fun car but I can't afford to be throwing money (and time, like I did for the front end issue) like I have. Please feel free to PM me or send me an E-Mail or contact me. If you really believe in your product, I really could use your assistance. Respectfully, Pills 53716

Took car to dealership to have alignment checked. out $95.00 to have them say the alignment is fine. Not really happy with FIAT or Pirelli for that matter.